New smart car? good choice or bad need advice please

[llamagoat]

i've decided to get a smart car, and i have found one but it has high millage, it has done 94,000 miles but has full smart dealer service history and was done annually regardless of millage. i keep reading loads of stories about engine re-builds, which while if it does happen i'd possibly try to re-build it myself but i just wanted to know if its a car i should consider or should i wait to find one with around 40-50k millage, as sometimes its just pot luck with the engine re-build right?

car is in excerlent condition and looks nice and clean and well looked after just the millage??

its a 2002 pulse, no paddle shift although i read somewhere that pulse's had this as standard (confused) - not sure if i should wait for a paddle one either, as i assume without the paddles its just like a tiptronic gearstick thing?

sorry for all the lack of knowledge its just a bit confusing for me with all the different smart car variants around 2001-2004

[Ocracoke]

From your description, it sounds as if the car hasn't had a rebuild. Combined with the mileage, it might not make financial sense if the car does need a rebuild (typically, a rebuild is upwards of £800 - certainly that was the experience with the 2002 Pure and 2004 Pulse we have at home). There has been a few known cases where the engine in a 450 hasn't needed it, typically through religious adherence to the service schedule but that is the exception rather than the rule. An engine needing a rebuild typically is symptomatic from around 60k upwards, but of course, your mileage may vary, my 2002 didn't need a rebuild until 75k.

its a 2002 pulse, no paddle shift although i read somewhere that pulse's had this as standard (confused) - not sure if i should wait for a paddle one either, as i assume without the paddles its just like a tiptronic gearstick thing?

In essence, yes. It isn't a tiptronic though (that name is VW thing) - Smart would call it a Softtouch for a Pulse/Passion or a Softtip for a Pure (odd I know). Paddleshift on Pulses from around that age didn't exist as far as I know. They are certainly more common on 700cc cars (2003/4 ->; 2007).

If you really want a 450 (that is the code given to the cars made between 1998 to 2007), then always bear the engine rebuild in mind. Always get proof that the rebuild has been done for any 450 you look at and that it was done a reputable engineer (fudgesmart being the preferred option). There are also other elements to bear in mind if you are looking at a 450, namely the turbo manifold is prone to cracking and the front suspension coils can snap.

What price is the car? If you can hold out, try getting a 450 Brabus (these appear to be more reliable, although am I sure some people here can testify otherwise) or a non-MHD or turbo 451 (2008 -> 2014). If reliability is the major concern, a non-MHD 451 is probably the way to go.

Hope this helps.

[tolsen]

Only the diesel is worth buying. Unbreakable engine. Beware, Smarts are bad for rust so buy one that has not been running around in areas unduly exposed to road salt.

[Ocracoke]

Only the diesel is worth buying. Unbreakable engine. Beware, Smarts are bad for rust so buy one that has not been running around in areas unduly exposed to road salt.

Agreed - the cdi, for all its rareness in the UK, is a fantastic engine for the Smart 450. I half wish I hadn't sold mine.

[137699]

Yes the CDI is pretty much bombproof, but they're also rare as hens teeth and (as I understand) LHD only - unless someone has transplanted an engine into a RHD car. The Brabus engine similarly is a much more resilient design and rebuilds are rare.

If it's cheap enough and well looked after, then I would say go for it. Any 1999-2007 fortwo (unless the CDI or Brabus) will very likely need a rebuild when you own it anyway, so at least you know this one has been looked after so other parts of the car are likely in good health. As opposed to buying a 40,000 one which hasn't really had much car - gets rebuilt while you own it, but also leaks, has clutch issues, suspension trouble etc.

As for rust - I know Tolsen has a very rusty cabrio in his ownership, but TBH I'm not sure it's as prevelant as he makes out. We have had 3 fortwos - 2002, 2003 & 2005 and none have had any major corrosion issues - certainly no worse than any other car of similar age.

[Thrumbleux]

car is in excerlent condition and looks nice and clean and well looked after just the millage??

Looking nice and clean doesn't tell you anything about mileage related wear. At 96k mls the engine has either been rebuilt (bonus - if you can get the proof) or will need to be soon. At that mileage though driveshafts, clutch, etc, could be coming to the end of their lives, and unless there's proof of prior replacements, then they need to be budgeted for also.
Depends what's being asked for the car whether it's a good buy or not (and how much work you can/could do yourself if needed) but there can't be that many 12 year old cars with mileages much lower anyway.

[llamagoat]

Just to add, I don't want a brabus etc they're out of my price range same with newer versions looking to spend up to £1500 ish but cheaper the better

[llamagoat]

Thanks for help, what would you say the price of a 2002 fsh 94k should sell at?

[137699]

It will probably sell at around £1500-£ I'800 What it's worth is an entirely different question. A rebuild will cost £800-£1200ish. A new turbo another £500ish. A new clutch another £600ish. If you consider what you might have to spend on it before too long you may not want to spend more than £1000 on it.

[Evilution]

Only the diesel is worth buying. Unbreakable engine.

I wish that were true for my 09 Cdi 451. Suddenly started running like a bag of ****. No power and barely runs.
Compression tested ok, fuel rail pressure ok, injectors tested ok. Injectors changed just in case and fuel rail changed. Still the same.

[MrPoo]

At £1500 you'll not find anything that isn't going to need money spent on it at some point. Yes it's likely that car will need a rebuild at some point, but any 450 could. The pulses didn't come with paddleshift as standard (or auto mode). You might be better off looking for one that's already had a rebuild. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

[Ocracoke]

Just to add, I don't want a brabus etc they're out of my price range same with newer versions looking to spend up to £1500 ish but cheaper the better

As much as I would say go for it, I would be really hesitant about buying a 450 at or below £1500. The figures provided by 137699 are about right in my experience. Get proof that the engine has been rebuilt unless you are looking for a project. A CDI is far, far more preferable but as mentioned, in the UK they were only sold in LHD form. I've seen a few RHD examples but they were all transplants and you still lose the tax advantage. They were also expensive (£4000 off the top of my head).

Ultimately, this is a decision for you. If you really want a 450, then by all means go for it but please don't go into ownership blind. Like anything, it matters as to how well the car has been maintained mechanically by the previous owners. I would much rather get a mechanically sound but aesthetically horrible car than the other way around (which, reading that back, speaks volumes about my 2002).

[Evilution]

A cheap smart to buy isn't going to be a cheap car to own.

[llamagoat]

Thanks for the advice everyone I test drove it and it smelt oily funny smell inside car so I didn't get it in the end wasn't sure what that was indicating?

[Ocracoke]

Thanks for the advice everyone I test drove it and it smelt oily funny smell inside car so I didn't get it in the end wasn't sure what that was indicating?

Could be anything oil related. Was it while it was running? Could be burning oil (as mentioned previously, that is a sign it needs a rebuild).

For £1500, you could get a later 700cc variant but same rules apply as with the 600cc as you were looking at.