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  • New engine required!

    Hi all, first post here from a new member having joined specifically for some advice on my mum's car.
    I recommended she buy a Fortwo a few yers ago after hearing great things about them. She's in her 80s but still very active and relies on her car daily, driving a mixture of local trips and longer dual carriageway every week or so. She has meticulously maintained the car throughout her ownership with the car having covered 43500 miles.
    Whilst doing 70 in the outside lane just before Christmas, the car stutted to splutter, lose power and finally cut out while she was overtaking a large lorry in less than clement weather! This was very stressful for her and she managed tio limp to the hard shoulder where the car refused to start.
    Anyway to cut a long story short, it was diagnosed that the oil control rings on cylinder 3 had gummed up leading to burnt valves and subsequent engine failure and was advised a new engine was the only cost effective way to go and she spent a shade under £1500 on a reconditioned one.
    My questions are, firstly is this normal? I've heard rumours and read forums where people say ' oh they all do this' !! Are Smart engines designed only to last 40-50000 miles.
    This has destroyed my mum's confidence in driving any distance and left her much more housebound than normal.
    I want to write to Smart/Mercedes or whoever makes the engines and make a complaint as I feel this is totally unacceptable in this day and age.
    Has anyone had a similar experience and anyone pursued this further?
    regards,
    Steve

  • #2
    Greetings, I'd suspect this is not typical of a Merc Smart engine. But you don't mention what year and CC? Also, you mention it's been well maintained but what about before she acquired it? Was it / has it been maintained by people that KNOW what they're doing or by people that THINK they know? Has it been run on 95 octane fuel? Or, because it's cheaper 91? Has the engine oil used been fully synthetic? Or synthetic enhanced? There's a big difference and not only in price. When were the spark plugs last changed? Smarts SHOULD be run on 95 or better and fully synthetic oil, used in the engine. Smart engines do 'use' oil in normal running, fuel stations will often offer to check the oil. BAD move, the engine oil level should only ever be checked when the engine is COLD. Oil when hot, 'hides' in the engine. If the engine is over filled with oil, that's bad. If the gas station adds any oil that's NOT synthetic, that's even worse. What happens when the spark plugs are replaced, sometimes they forget to replace the 'other' 3 plugs, as they don't see them. Replacement of the plugs should be done 'clinically', IE, remove the plug lead with the correct tool - not just pull the lead off, that has a large chance of causing the lead to break down and cause a misfire or not fire at all. Then, with a source of high pressure, 120psi, air and a duster gun, blow air around the sparkplug, wear a full face mask and keep your eyes closed, then undo the plug 2 or 3 turns, blast the plug again and keep doing this until the plug is removed from the head. The reason for this work, to stop the **** that has got down in the spark plug hole, from falling into the cylinder. This **** is very small, probably sand or grit. Having replaced all six spark plugs, if you've not done as I've described, when starting the engine all the **** that's fallen inside the chamber, makes its exit past the exhaust valves - it only needs one tiny bit of sand/grit to be stuck between the valve and seat for it to cause the valve/seat to start burning - result, burnt valve/seat within 1000 to 1500 miles of plug replacement, causing the engine to die.
    Question, was the 1500 quid spent on a reconditioned engine as you said OR an overhauled engine? There's a big difference. Having spent 1500, I'd hope it was reconditioned.
    In my opinion, a Smart that's been well maintained / serviced by people that KNOW what they're doing should provide lasting service for well over 150,000 miles, so long as the correct fuel is used and any oil top-ups, use the correct oil. I'm sure there are people that may not agree with me on the subject but all I ask is, has/have their car/s been serviced correctly - by people that know what they're doing.
    There are other things that will stop a Smart, springs snap, Crank Angle Sensors fail, brake pedal switches fail, light bulbs blow, but on the whole, Smarts are just as reliable as most cars.
    Cheers, Ian.

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    • #3
      If its a 698cc engine you need I have a Roadster 1 that needs a new home,its done 48000 miles

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      • #4
        I think you can probably rule out running on 91 RON in the UK. The minimum available is 95 RON unless you use Super Unleaded which is 98 RON.

        As for the other points made about plugs, and oil etc, no doubt these could all have had an impact.

        Comment


        • #5
          Steve

          Have a read through some of the many posts on this forum and smartz and you'll find that it is a common occurrence.

          If the work has been done well, she should have many many miles of trouble-free motoring.

          Tell her to get out there and have fun - I hope I'm still able to at her age!

          Sincerely - Bob
          Last edited by bob-in-dav; 27-04-15, 07:33 AM.

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          • #6
            Is it common? Assuming it's a 1998-2007 model - yes - all too common - especially if they have been serviced by someone who isn't a smart expert and has used the wrong oil and only changed 3 plugs every major service.
            Is it acceptable? Well Merc will probably argue as a car designed only for city driving, and engineered for economy, it was never designed to do stellar mileages.

            As bob-in-dav says, IF (and it's a big "if" as there are a lot of cowboys out there) it's been rebuilt correctly - she should have trouble-free times ahead.

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            • #7
              Google and contact Fudgesmart.

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              • #8
                On the flip side of the coin, a well maintained and cared for 698cc petrol fortwo can go on to do much higher mileages. As an example, my fortwo is 10 years old and is currently on 134,000 miles on the original engine - no repairs or rebuilds. It's been serviced every 10K miles or 12 months, everything replaced when it's due and treated with mechanical sympathy.

                It seems that they are few and far between for various reasons (most of which have already been mentioned here). Ironically, if a smart fortwo is used purely as city car with only short stop/start town use, it'll accelerate engine wear and certainly cause premature failure. But that rule applies to pretty much any internal combustion enigne - regardless of make or model.

                I'm sure they are many happy owners on relatively high mileages who haven't suffered major issues and who don't post on forums and may not even be a member of any smart clubs.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Thrumbleux View Post
                  Google and contact Fudgesmart.
                  Bit late for that...

                  Originally posted by p6steve View Post
                  she spent a shade under £1500 on a reconditioned one.

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                  • #10
                    An illustration of how common - each of these exhaust valves is from a different engine and fixing Smarts is just my hobby - none of these engines have had problems since I rebuilt them.


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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by 137699 View Post

                      Bit late for that...



                      Apologies - I skim read the OP's post in a hurry and thought she'd been quoted £1500. As you say, too late now.

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                      • #12
                        Cheers for all the advice guys. I'll arm myself with all this info and take a trip to the garage that's looked after it for five years and see what they say. Will report back later. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by bob-in-dav View Post
                          An illustration of how common - each of these exhaust valves is from a different engine and fixing Smarts is just my hobby - none of these engines have had problems since I rebuilt them.


                          Greetings, I'm no forensic scientist but those valves look as though the cause of burning was from a single point of 'hot spot', AKA, a bit of grit/sand being crushed between the valve and seat, as it tried to exit the combustion chamber. I'm not convinced at all that the valve burning is caused by excessive oil in the chamber. Oil will all ways be there as that's the way the oil breather system is set up, it would only be unburnt oil that would pass the valve seat and that would tend to cool the seat/valve. These are high performance engines and as such would be able to handle the possibly (arguably) higher temperature. The other item that passes through the exhaust cycle is bits of porcelain from the spark plugs, which is one of the reasons they are replaced at a reduced mileage, compared to other cars. Cheers, Ian.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mad smart person View Post
                            ... those valves look as though the cause of burning was from a single point of 'hot spot', AKA, a bit of grit/sand being crushed between the valve and seat, as it tried to exit the combustion chamber. I'm not convinced at all that the valve burning is caused by excessive oil in the chamber.
                            Grit due to owner having fitted poor after market free flowing air filter such as K&N or ITG perhaps?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by tolsen View Post
                              Grit due to owner having fitted poor after market free flowing air filter such as K&N or ITG perhaps?
                              Hmm... more likely to be the air filter itself coming loose if that were the case as opposed to the filtering capabilities of such things.

                              Forgive my ignorance, but if the valves are disintegrating because they are running too hot for one reason or another, are the material they (and/or the valve seats) are made of too soft then?

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