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Sump Advice 450

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  • Sump Advice 450

    Next service I do I am going to do myself - Is it worth replacing the sump with a aftermarket sump (with drain plug) or does the Pela 3000 method get out all the oil ?

    If the old sump is corroded obviously I would replace but if not I will just clean it up and maybe paint it with some black high temp engine paint I have (to stop any future corrosion setting in)

    Also if it was corroded and needed replacement is it worth putting a magnet in the sump so that any tiny metal fragments stick - This used to be a trick on some older cars I had.

    Ta.

  • #2
    The Pela works just fine (ensure the oil is hot) and resealing a sump can be a bit hit or miss so I wouldn't disturb the sump unless absolutely necessary. If there's no corrosion, underseal will do - it doesn't get that hot. Magnet? - better oil and there'll be no need.

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    • #3
      Stick a magnetron magnet to outside of sump.

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      • #4
        Greetings all, putting a new sump on with a drain plug fitted is a grand idea, BUT I know I'm going to be shot down in flames here, having the sump plug on the bottom of the sump (most for sale are) is a really dumb idea. Reason, the sump bottom is very flat, as you know and because of this, is VERY resilient to withstanding being hit by something. Having a sump plug hanging down in the breeze is bound to contact anything and rip a hole in the sump - lots of oil on the road - not nice to be the following vehicles - slip sliding away!!!!
        AND engine making very funny / expensive noises.
        SO, the best place, in my opinion, for a sump drain plug is on the side, right at the bottom, aft corner on the starboard side. Trouble is, you need to have somebody that KNOWS what they are doing when it comes to welding it in. IE, someone that has their welding checked at least every 6 months by an inspection authority.
        When replacing the sump, you need to allow at least 3 days for the oil to drain out of the engine once you've removed the sump, that includes getting in there at least twice a day and helping the oil get out with cleaning fluids. Fully synthetic oil is funny stuff - not much sticks to it, so unless the mating surfaces are clinically clean, there's no point in applying sealant. Then, once the sump has been replaced, allow another 24 hours, to allow the sealant to dry before you fill the engine with oil - otherwise, you'll end up with oil seepage.
        In the meantime, before replacing the sump, a magnetron magnet is a great idea but before pulling the wife's microwave to bits, to get the magnet, google - are magnetrons radioactive - food for thought.
        Another idea, probably cost a little but save the marriage is Neodymium ring magnets, AKA super magnets.
        More food for thought. Well, there's not much else to do in this weather - just eat...
        Remember the 'proper MINI', they had a magnetic sump plug fitted, then again the engine and gearbox swam about in the same oil, so they needed something to catch the bits of gear cog.
        Cheers, Ian.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Mad smart person View Post
          .... Trouble is, you need to have somebody that KNOWS what they are doing when it comes to welding it in. IE, someone that has their welding checked at least every 6 months by an inspection authority......
          C'mon ..... a coded welder to weld a sump plug? I'm not coded, but more than capable of welding one. The only time you might get problems is when a sump is ally ..... not the nicest of things to weld when the oil is soaked into the aluminium.

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          • #6
            Just buy the Pela pump or the £12.99 electric one that Lidl sell. There's no need for sump plugs anymore - suction removes more oil and leaves the pan cleaner than gravity - especially in a sump shape which MSP rightly points out was never designed for draining.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by 137699 View Post
              Just buy the Pela pump or the £12.99 electric one that Lidl sell. There's no need for sump plugs anymore - suction removes more oil and leaves the pan cleaner than gravity - especially in a sump shape which MSP rightly points out was never designed for draining.
              Agreed. I've removed a Roadster's sump after using my Pela. There was next to no oil left in there.

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              • #8
                My diesel 450 has a brazed on threaded boss accommodating an M10 drain plug. Oil drains out perfectly with hardly and oil left behind.

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                • #9
                  Greetings, I have a funny feeling the sump is made of high tensile steel, I could be wrong but if it is, it needs special attention when being welded? Whoops, the reason for having the plug welded in properly by someone that has had their work independently tested is that, having modified the sump if the welding was to fail, who would be responsible??? I know of people that 'think' they can weld but then the better option is to get it done by somebody that 'knows' they can weld - there's a big difference.
                  I agree with those that are happy to use a vacuum sucker but as to how much oil has been sucked out is proven by how much new oil needs to be put in - if you put it less than 3.3 liters there'd be old oil still in the sump and that new oil turns black very quickly. I just like to have to look hard at the dip stick, as new oil is hard to see on it. Then again, more than 3.3 ltrs, and it's probably 'over' oiled.
                  I know I'm strange, I change the engine oil every 5000 Km - a hangover from my Mini days.
                  No comments yet about my attitude to the sump plug being on the side,not the bottom, interesting?
                  Cheers, Ian.

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                  • #10
                    Oil sump on the 450 and 452 is made from mild steel so welding or brazing cause no issues.

                    I have replaced lots of rusty and leaking sumps on these cars and have then always fitted the ECD sump with drain plug. s-l1600.jpg




                    At only £18.35 inclusive of shipping all the way from Germany, there is no point welding on or brazing on an oil drain yourself. With the drain plug in place you have the option to either suck or drain the oil. I usually add a flushing agent at each oil change and a problem then is the oil gets far too hot for my oil suction pump so draining is the only option unless I let the oil cool down and sediment out.
                    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Engine-oi....c100227.m3827
                    Attached Files
                    Last edited by tolsen; 20-02-18, 09:15 AM.

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                    • #11
                      The steel sump can get particularly rusty especially up here mainly due to road salt:



                      After a few hours in the electrolysis tank and some good Lidl elbow grease the sump looked almost like brand new:



                      We then fitted a drain plug and electric heater. Drain plug is just visible in bottom right near corner:



                      Heater is a PTC towel rail heater. This type of heater self regulates and can even run dry without burning out:





                      Got it coated in 2 pack ballast tank paint and bitumen. Below sump is not mine but one I painted for a lady 450 owner:



                      My sump fitted on the car:



                      Looks like I have a wee oil leak possibly coming from the oil cooler. Cable for towel rail heater is not designed for this kind of service so protected inside a transparent hose and gland sealed with self amalgamating tape. Note how well the bitumen stands up to the heat. I got the whole underbody coated in nearly ten litres of the stuff. Protects against rust and very good at suppressing noise too.
                      Last edited by tolsen; 20-02-18, 10:09 AM.

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                      • #12
                        I fitted mains power inlet socket for sump heater on right hand side boot panel as shown:

                        732D4014-453F-4600-8349-84FBA5AE54BF.jpeg.beebe5847f2f880f75275a2d29b821c9.jpg

                        Inlet socket came all the way from China:

                        6A0B4D65-109D-41ED-98F8-607377BE2C15.thumb.jpeg.90b007b70a562359abd8faa7c78249b9.jpg

                        There is something written on it in Chinese: 充电口正厂部件
                        Chōngdiàn kǒu zhèng chǎng bùjiàn

                        Google translate tells me this means
                        “Charge port is the factory components” which makes little or no sense to me. Perhaps someone that can read Chinese can offer enlightenment?


                        Attached Files

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by tolsen View Post
                          .....

                          After a few hours in the electrolysis tank and some good Lidl elbow grease the sump looked almost like brand new:



                          .......
                          Nice to see a Heinz soup can :-)

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by EmilysDad View Post

                            Nice to see a Heinz soup can :-)
                            Used to contain lentil soup my staple diet. In photo half full of 2 pack paint ready to coat sump..

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by tolsen View Post
                              Used to contain lentil soup my staple diet......
                              So I see ;-)
                              I work at Heinz :-)

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