Power steering

[EmilysDad]

I can't be bothered looking up lots of details but a cursory look for PAS as standard on the fiat reveals... it was an option. ...

I couldn't be bothered either, but as it's fitted (actually to a 52 plate but they were around before that) to a city run about I never thought that it wouldn't be fitted. ;-)

[10:45PM]

I can't be bothered looking up lots of details but a cursory look for PAS as standard on the fiat reveals... it was an option.

As you say, you get used to it & then really notice when it's not there

I wouldn't say really notice it , I've driven smarts since 2002 contiguously , and not once did I think 'you know what, this car needs PAS' , not once ..., I never optioned it when it became available either.

I only took it on the new one cos it's standard

[ColSmart]

In other words you like the 'feel of the wheel'

My first car was a Hillman Imp (rear engined car, no power steering in them days), and in icy winter I had to put a bag of cement in the front boot to keep the wheels down on the road, he he.

[Thrumbleux]

Fiat has most of its weight over its front wheels. A fortwo has about 250kg on its nose.
I've not driven a fortwo with EPAS but I have driven a Mercedes A-Class (2nd gen) with EPAS and it was detestable. Zero feedback whereas with my manual steered 450 I know at all times the conditions underfoot. That is so much safer.

[EmilysDad]

Probably several reasons, cost when the car was introduced in 1998, the size&weight&length of the car should preclude the need for EPAS

How much does a motor cost & a bit of software?

How many smaller cars in 1998 had EPAS ? (remember it's electric not hydraulic)

Emily's Fiat Siecento has it :-) Though I believe that it's not without its own faults .... they can fail on one side only!

As they added it in later years , they probably saw an opportunity to add it the line as a chargeable option for almost every car except perhaps the odd SE version..

This was a later mhd car ie from 2007

Once you've driven a landrover for instance the smart in comparision is feather light lol

A Land Rover was never marketed as a city run about though :-)

It really doesn't need it imho (having said that my new c453 has it as standard and I've just accepted it , it feels good)

As you say, you get used to it & then really notice when it's not there

No-one's mentioned tyre pressures so far (have they?) ... these can play a part in steering feel

Indeed they can & as it was driven from a dealer's forecourt I didn't check them ;-)

[10:45PM]

It just really surprises me that a car that was sold as a city run-about came without PAS as standard

Probably several reasons, cost when the car was introduced in 1998, the size&weight&length of the car should preclude the need for EPAS
How many smaller cars in 1998 had EPAS ? (remember it's electric not hydraulic)
As they added it in later years , they probably saw an opportunity to add it the line as a chargeable option for almost every car except perhaps the odd SE version..

Once you've driven a landrover for instance the smart in comparision is feather light lol

It really doesn't need it imho (having said that my new c453 has it as standard and I've just accepted it , it feels good)

No-one's mentioned tyre pressures so far (have they?) ... these can play a part in steering feel

[Thrumbleux]

Wider? Surely more rubber on the ground will weight the steering ...... ???[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]

Sounds counter intuitive but definitely the steering lightens. Slightly different steering geometry will be the reason.

[COLOR=#252C2F][FONT=Helvetica][SIZE=13px]
The only 'failure' of our Roadster's PAS was in the early days of owning it and just required the connections to be cleaned up & replaced.

There have been a few threads here with failed PAS. The replacement parts are not cheap! My point is that without the PAS there would have been no failure. Wider wheels and tyres are a much cheaper route to lighter steering and come with a host of additional benefits.

It just really surprises me that a car that was sold as a city run-about came without PAS as standard. I suppose my R Class could also be included in the comment of 'a narrow band of cars' too ;-)

R-Class is indeed rare - but unlikely that you are hunting one down with a particular rarely fitted option.
In this case, PAS is more likely to be fitted to a city dwelling fortwo than a motorway one. A reason to avoid it rather than seek it out then.

[EmilysDad]

I can't comment on other models but a 450 without PAS can have its steering lightened by fitting wider (Roadster steel in my case) front wheels and tyres..

Wider? Surely more rubber on the ground will weight the steering ...... ???

That, to my mind, is preferable to being restricted to a narrow pool of PAS equipped cars and expensive to sort if it goes wrong PAS.

The only 'failure' of our Roadster's PAS was in the early days of owning it and just required the connections to be cleaned up & replaced.

It just really surprises me that a car that was sold as a city run-about came without PAS as standard. I suppose my R Class could also be included in the comment of 'a narrow band of cars' too ;-)

[Thrumbleux]

I can't comment on other models but a 450 without PAS can have its steering lightened by fitting wider (Roadster steel in my case) front wheels and tyres.
That, to my mind, is preferable to being restricted to a narrow pool of PAS equipped cars and expensive to sort if it goes wrong PAS.

[EmilysDad]

Just start moving the wheel when the car is actually rolling, steering is easy then on any non PAS car ... it's only when you try and manoeuvre with stationary wheels that it's hard work.

.....

I know ....... I do it even on PAS cars ...... have been doing so for 35+ yrs ;-) And I can assure you it still wasn't as easy as with a car with PAS ;-)

[10:45PM]

Just start moving the wheel when the car is actually rolling, steering is easy then on any non PAS car ... it's only when you try and manoeuvre with stationary wheels that it's hard work.

(I can't remember the ratio's but the roady was different entirely, a lot more had it than didn't afaik)

[EmilysDad]

Some owners (especially obviously not the original 'from new' owners) are fooled into (one way or another) thinking that the smart has EPAS ....sometimes inadvertently misled by the previous (not from new) owner...

Historically the adverts you see for them secondhand are/were awash with this misinformed view/spec.


The vast (I'd guess at potentially 90/95%+) majority (pre 2014 that is) don't have it ..... ALL the new (post 2014 ) models have it though.

As my Roadster has it, I'd just assumed that more of the Fortwos would have had it. You wouldn't think that the lack of assistance in such a small car would be a big deal ..... but it was bloody hard work parking up the car I took for a spin yesterday. Even Emily's Seicento has it. Perhaps I've gone soft in my old age.

[10:45PM]

Some owners (especially obviously not the original 'from new' owners) are fooled into (one way or another) thinking that the smart has EPAS ....sometimes inadvertently misled by the previous (not from new) owner...

Historically the adverts you see for them secondhand are/were awash with this misinformed view/spec.


The vast (I'd guess at potentially 90/95%+) majority (pre 2014 that is) don't have it ..... ALL the new (post 2014 ) models have it though.

[EmilysDad]

Can I assume that all Fortwos do NOT have PAS unless they specifically say that it does? I've just messaged the owner of one car asking if it had it & the replay was ...... 'I don't think so' Surely you know if your car has it or not.