Yes another roady audio thread....

[optikon]

Re: Yes another roady audio thread....

Change the HU. When i changed my speakers to some 3way PIONEER and leave Grundig Hu i had slight better sound. After Hu9881R/SPE 13CS/SWD 1600 everything is perfect. Here is the picture of my speakers. All drilling done by ALPINE specialist here in Belgrade.

[m1pui]

Re: Yes another roady audio thread....

with the greatest:respect:



with low power comes cheapness in respect of drivers

what you should also be ensuring as well as high power is that they are high efficiency

Ah ok, anything more than basic acronyms is lost on me.

If that were true then theloudest.com would produce the best speakers in the world with the added benefit of being an absolute bargain! lol. WTGR.. Cheap doesn't always mean poor quality if you stick with established brands. JBL Alpine & Hertz all have fantastic budget ranges and have done for a long time now.

Speakers are so inefficient anyway that it's not really worth taking into account and there's also the argument that highly efficient speakers can come with negative side effects, such as apparently "uncontrolled" sound, although this isn't something I can state from experience.

Running off a headunit, I still say low (which is relative, 30w-40w-50w is hardly scraping the barrel) power 4ohm coax's are still my recommendation in this application. Hertz coax's are fantastic sounding for not a lot of money, I had a set in the rear of my bmw and was massively impressed with them when they were the only speakers in my car.

[smart-eddy]

Re: Yes another roady audio thread....

AAAARRRRGGGGGGHHHH!!! :censor: :censor: :censor:

a post I spent about 45 mins writing just failed and I forgot to copy it before pressing post!!!!!!!!

[smart-eddy]

Re: Yes another roady audio thread....

Components are far superior due to the fact that you can move/adjust the tweeters for the optimum placement in the cabin. But if you're not buying into amp's, good components are not really going to be able to sing as well as they could by just running them from the headunits (even an aftermarket) built in amp which are a) not very powerful and b) not very good quality.

However, a lot of vehicles now come with components as standard so, audio manufacturers being on the ball, you can get comps (cheaply actually) which are primarily designed to work decently from the headunit. These are ones which were, I think were probably, designed to be a simple upgrade from a factory setup:
Alpine SXE-1350S £35
Pioneer TSA130ci £45

As for coaxials, they're not perfect, but they do have there place. In any application, you want the tweeters to be the same distance from the ear as the mid-woofer so mounting them together is absolute perfection, in theory. In reality, the cabin of a car has too many intrusions which cause all kinds of reflections and blockages for the sound to travel.

But in the situation of the roadster, it appears that, the speakers are placed as such that you get quite an admirable sound from coaxials. You sit low slung and the speakers look as though they're placed in the door cards near the steering wheel and very much near the open cabin (i've not seen a roadster up close so put me right if i'm not) whereas in many cars, as madDan says, they're placed deep in the footwells next to your ankles/knees which is not good for anything. The passenger might lose some detail where the drivers speaker is blocked by the steering wheel but it'll not be heavily noticeable in a simple setup.

Tweeters, in lot of coaxials, can me moved/angled slightly so you can direct them accordingly to improve the soundstage too so you don't need to be overly concerned about them firing in the complete wrong direction. In ones which tweeters are fixed in position, they're normally angled anyway so you just need to rotate the whole speaker and mount it so they're pointing the right way, if that makes sense.

Ultimately comp's are better but there's no reason you'll not be happy with some decent coaxials. If you're not expanding the setup further it's the best compromise and a worthy upgrade from factory paper cones.

As for your other problem about the doors rattling. Thats always going to happen unless you use sound-deadening. The speakers vibrate and that transfers through the mounting and the door. If you mount the speakers solidly and use some deadening you'll reduce it quite considerably.

I don't think the Grundig headunit is particularly good and most probably so I would say keep the aftermarket, but if you've got both headunits to hand, there's no reason why you can't change your speakers then try both headunits side by side and see yourself if it's a noticeable difference. Most likely is that the speakers will begin to distort at a lower volume with the Grundig than the aftermarket because the internal amp is a bit pants but as for the actual sound quality, thats something you'll be able to decide for yourself.

What aftermarket headunit are you using btw? Just to get an idea of how much of a step down you'd be making by changing back

ok as my long post just failed this will be a bit shorter but hopefull help a little. while I can't tell you which model of HU I have till I finish work, I can tell you its a JVC (I think anyway) HU and it was around £180 new about 5 years ago. yes I have had it 5 years and it has served me very well but maybe with time its got worse and maybe time to change.

ok so its life so far:

'96 Fiesta - when I bought the car it had the completely original sound system (tape player, 2 speakers), I then bought this HU and it improved the sound quality drastically but still distorted at quite high volume so I bought 4 sony speakers for £80 the pair and a JBL sub. the sound was brill and went loud enough for me without distorting.

'97 Vectra - when I bought this car it already had an aftermarket HU and 4 upgraded speakers. I then added my trusty HU and 2 more speakers and the sound was unbelieveable. it was perfect, plus as much bass as the fiesta had and there wasn't even a sub in here.

'04 Roady - When I bought this it had a sony HU in it and 2 "upgraded" sony speakers. the sound was awful so stuck my one in and it this time stayed the same, Awful. the guy I bought the car off was suppose to give me the original HU but never did so I'm not going to be able to compare.

I now no longer need or see the attraction of people not inside my car hearing my music (must be getting old) so I do not require anything that will be entertain a whole tesco's car park, all I'm after is good sound quality that will remain good quality at volumes needed for motorway driving. for example I cannot hear in the intro to songs like coldplay - fix you or guns n roses - november rain at motorway speeds at all. there are many songs that just sound plain wrong on my stereo as there is almost no form of bass which is annoying.

after reading some of the comments it seems co-axles are what I want (and have had in the past) as I have never seperately fitted and have never had issues with sound quality so they will do me.

hope this gives more insight into my requirements and I await any more advice as I won't be buying for another few weeks as cash is low.

[madDan]

Re: Yes another roady audio thread....

You talk about wanting to be able to hear detail in the music, then go and ignore proper advice to fit components.

I think you don't know what you really want.

My advice - get components - the small amount of extra effort installing them is rewarded in buckets of Audio delight.

installing them can be subtle too.



woofer in normal position

tweeter in A-Pillar

buy an active flat sub and throw it in behind your passenger or drivers seat to give you the required lower bass tones.

[smart-eddy]

Re: Yes another roady audio thread....

cheers for the reply dan, Mayybe my post does almost contradict ifself at certian points, all I'm saying is in the two cars previous to my roady it would appear I've had these co-axle thing-a-me-bobs. must say that pic in your post looks mighty cool, though looks a bit advanced for my DIY skill, I would'nt want to go cutting into pillars etc. and as I said I have had stunning sound quality (for me anyway) just from using £30-£40 speakers and if could even remotely get near to that quality again I would be more than happy

I really want to avoid going down the sub-woofer route. saying that the main thing missing from my sound is the bass but I have had on the vectra I had to have the bass on -3 all the time and again there was no sub so I know what can be achined through speakers alone. I'm sure the distortion will be erased from better speakers, if not I shall try replacing the head unit.

I think I'm right in saying that as the speakers can't be too deep and the positioning of the speakers mean I won't get masses of bass but just SOME would really be a good start. I don't think I am being too unrealistic, as I said before being in james' BRe has pretty impressive bass and have heard guns n roses november rain on his and it sounds fine.

[madDan]

Re: Yes another roady audio thread....

The Blaupunkt components I linked to are not very expensive and should improve the sound quality, and obviously the sounds starts with the sound source ie well engineered CD's or Radio source - this must be handled well by a decent head unit - that doesn't mean it needs to be heckspensive or full of gimicks.

If you wish to wait whilst saving your pennies why not come on the next south roady run being run in August, you can have a sit and a listen, to see what can be acheived without extra amps, by focusing the sound on the occupants inside the car, rather than outside the car.

I drive mainly barless and listen to music, be that a bit of Mike Oldfield instrumental, Judas Priests latest album, Rush, Neil Young, Tom Petty, Simon & Garfunkel or whatever currently is playing on Planet Rock, or when I am listening to the unbridged reading of lord of the rings, Journey into space, the point being the setup delivers them at a listenable level whilst on the move in the noisey environment that is the Roady.

[smart-eddy]

Re: Yes another roady audio thread....

brill, If I can make it I'll certianly look forward to having a butchers.

how much difference would adding an amp to a setup help. I was always under the impression that you only need and amp when you are running a sub?

how much was you whole setup if you don't mind me asking and how good is the sound compared to being in a big saloon with a decent stero?

[herman1rg]

Re: Yes another roady audio thread....

Ah Mr Dan you are definitely a gentleman and a scholar listening to Planet Rock (my favourite station). Do you have a built in DAB radio or a Pure Highway?

[m1pui]

Re: Yes another roady audio thread....

An amp will make a massive difference to components or coaxials. More power and a cleaner signal than the headunits built in amplifier could ever put out. Basically, you'll find that you get a hell of a lot less distortion at volume than you would from the headunit, something that will be paramount for your motorway driving.

Our fortwo is currently running a set of amped Rainbow components with no sub and it sounds great. If you pick the right drivers you can get some nice detailed bass that might lessen the want for a sub. But on the same path, there's no reason why you couldn't simply add one later if needs be.

If you're being swayed into comps, these (SPL-Dynamics £70 Caraudiodirect) are spoke very highly of for their mid-bass reproduction, they're also available in coax model (SPL Dynamics TD502 £45), but don't know anyone with them to pass on an experienced opinion. You can get some very compact amps which would easily be hide-able in a roadster (eg. Alpine MRP T222 £65).

I know the question wasn't aimed at me, but my install most recent install has been;
e46 BMW 3-series Saloon
Pioneer P88RS Headunit
Pioneer PRS Amplifer
Rainbow Germanium 6.5" Components
10" Diamond SQ Subwoofer
MTX Mono Amplifier (420w RMS)

some of which was transferred into the fortwo to become
Alpine 9886r Headunit
Pioneer PRS amp
Rainbow SAC 6.5" components

It's obviously lost some of the bass kick since the sub's gone but the front end sounds awesome. The SAC line is, on paper, a step down from the Germaniums I had in the BMW but the mid-bass is much more pronounced and they are crystal clear. When I first got in I couldn't believe the difference in the sound quality and the soundstage from what I was used to in the saloon.

I listen to everything too. Billy Joel, Talking Heads, Tribe Called Quest, Pink Floyd, Ben Folds, Death Cab for Cutie, Notorious BIG, Toto, Tiesto, Underworld, Jay Z, Chemical Brothers, Avril Lavigne... the list really does go on.

Your set up can cost as much or as little as you're willing to spend, tbh. At just about every price point, most of the good quality manufacturers have a lineup with something which fits the bill

[madDan]

Re: Yes another roady audio thread....

Flat "ACTIVE" subs already have an amp.

as to my head unit, yes it has DAB built in.

[smart-eddy]

Re: Yes another roady audio thread....

Right guys its update time. So I bought a grundig original jobby off the t'interweb and plugged it in this morning for a quick go and wow, it sounded incredible there was actually some form of bass and it was just alot nicer. BUT!!! it cant play mp3 cd's and it did distort after volume level 16 or so but that was pretty darn loud so that acceptable just need new speakers but the improvement cant be put into words it was like being in a different car. so I plugged my current head unit in again just to see if it was a loose wire or summat and no it was like listening to music on a mobile phone on loud speaker again. seriously that is how [I] would describe it.

I reckon my head unit has finally had it so what I need now is a head unit, nothing flash at all just something respectable that plays mp3 cd's, gonna look on ebay for any second handers maybe a old alpine or something that will keep me going while I save up for some semi decent speakers. any reccommendations for a head unit. new or second hand prefferably cheap as poss though.

cheers in advance

[m1pui]

Re: Yes another roady audio thread....

Personally, for cheaper models, I'd buy brand new and official UK headunits.

Like anything second hand, the mechanical parts can wear out and it could end up costing as much as you paid for it to have it repaired. Of course, if you get a high-end model for a great price then it's less of a worry but it's something to think about all the same. And with some of the Asian/US imports which are sold on ebay, you need to be careful regarding international warranties (which there often isn't any) and there's also a lot of counterfeit units for sale coming from that side of the world

Kenwood KDC W312SA £54.99
Kenwood KDC W4041A £64.99 (its' also available with Green or White illumination if you check Caraudiodirect
Pioneer DEH 3000MP £69.99
Blaupunkt Sevilla £74.99 They're not THE best but I like that they look very OEM in most cars.

There are cheaper ones available but, value for money, I'd probably say the Pioneer one or the second Kenwood one would be my selections.

[smart-eddy]

Re: Yes another roady audio thread....

I agree I would not buy any of those models from the usa or japan or a brand Id not heard of but I dunno I thought maybe I could get a cheapo second hander of the bay but maybe not.

i will probably pop into my local car shop and see whats available on the cheap and see where we go from there, I'll probably end up spending all the money I get from selling the grundig unit on ebay so prob around £60 so might get one of the ones you selected. liking the look of the second Kenwood one.

[alchemistkevin]

Re: Yes another roady audio thread....

Personally, for cheaper models, I'd buy brand new and official UK headunits.

Like anything second hand, the mechanical parts can wear out and it could end up costing as much as you paid for it to have it repaired. Of course, if you get a high-end model for a great price then it's less of a worry but it's something to think about all the same. And with some of the Asian/US imports which are sold on ebay, you need to be careful regarding international warranties (which there often isn't any) and there's also a lot of counterfeit units for sale coming from that side of the world

Kenwood KDC W312SA £54.99
Kenwood KDC W4041A £64.99 (its' also available with Green or White illumination if you check Caraudiodirect
Pioneer DEH 3000MP £69.99
Blaupunkt Sevilla £74.99 They're not THE best but I like that they look very OEM in most cars.

There are cheaper ones available but, value for money, I'd probably say the Pioneer one or the second Kenwood one would be my selections.

While I agree with your post overall, I'd rather buy a used UK Alpine, etc HU than a new kenwood or cheap sony's (the new low end HU's by Sony are really inferior in SQ)based on my experience of the sound quality of high end Alpine's that were £200+ a year or two ago and are now around £60-£80