700cc engine more durable than 600c?

[T33NEY]

Seems there is no shortage of the older 600c engines blowing up and needing costly replacements..
I realise the 700cc engine is newer and they are most likely outnumbered by 600cc engined Smarts. But still, I really don't seem to see any 700cc engines having such serious issues at all.
Fact or myth?
Just curious like!
Paul

[Taraxacum]

Re: 700cc engine more durable than 600c?

One possible good reason for this is that the 698 engines are not as old yet and have not doen the same sort of mileage as the majority of 599's.

[markg]

Re: 700cc engine more durable than 600c?

We can hope I suppose, you'd expect their engineers to have addressed some issues when changing the engine size though.

[Sam]

Re: 700cc engine more durable than 600c?

no i would say the same as tarax the engines arent old enough yet

the more oil changes and spark changes should help prolong the life, i am actually thinking of changing mines yearly as its not that expensive when you have the tools

[Taraxacum]

Re: 700cc engine more durable than 600c?

you'd expect their engineers to have addressed some issues when changing the engine size though.

You mean just like they didnt with the cracking turbo manifiolds?

To be fair I think newer design is 'more' solid and less likely to show cracks but they are still failing now they are getting a few years old, just maybe not in quite the same numbers.

[T33NEY]

Re: 700cc engine more durable than 600c?

That seems reasonable enough, apart from many 600's seem to be going pop with as little as 30k miles on them.. 700's have been out for 3 years or more now? And many have got more than 30k on the clock without issue, but then so have many 600's I guess. Still, I got the impression that little or no 700's are going pop, even with many of of these engines being in relatively high mileage roadsters which mostly have more bhp too. But sure, perhaps for whatever reason it is more down to age than milage?
I've just sold my bomb proof VW, so im wondering what im letting myself in for with a Smart, as they seem rather more, erm.. 'fragile' on the scale of things
Paul

[lil.smartie]

Re: 700cc engine more durable than 600c?

The Smart engine be it a 600 or 700cc version is a highly stressed tuned turbo charged power plant. This is before we start playing with them! This is why they don't seem to last like a bomb proof 2 litre engine!

One of the big contributing factors seems to be servicing, make sure you watch the oil levels, always use fully synthetic, change the plugs when needed & stick with NGK's and remember even if you don't do the mileage servicing is needed every year minimum!

My 600cc turbo went at about 75,000 miles and I have seen a couple of 700cc ones go at around 30,000 miles so I think it's fair to say wait and see if there is a huge difference in the life span!

Kate

[T33NEY]

Re: 700cc engine more durable than 600c?

My previous car was turbocharged as well (vag 1.8T) and was tuned up to about 230bhp. And it was still tough as old boots. You just cant blow those engines up. Even adding another 100bhp via a humungous turbo and no internal mods, they still don't blow. Over engineered perhaps..

Back back to 3 pot smart engines though.. I guess I was rather hoping that the 700's were tougher.. But perhaps its fingers crossed as usual after 30k miles or so then!?
Paul

[blondster1983]

Re: 700cc engine more durable than 600c?

That seems reasonable enough, apart from many 600's seem to be going pop with as little as 30k miles on them.. 700's have been out for 3 years or more now? And many have got more than 30k on the clock without issue, but then so have many 600's I guess. Still, I got the impression that little or no 700's are going pop, even with many of of these engines being in relatively high mileage roadsters which mostly have more bhp too. But sure, perhaps for whatever reason it is more down to age than milage?
I've just sold my bomb proof VW, so im wondering what im letting myself in for with a Smart, as they seem rather more, erm.. 'fragile' on the scale of things
Paul

I sold a very reliable car (Astra Coupe 2.2) to get my roadster. And I will admit, I have nagging worries in the back of my head about engine reliability.

But mine has still done such low miles that I do not see it as a problem...

Stephane mentioned about his engine going at 50000 miles, and that was a Brabus I believe? (correct me if I'm wrong)

But that is the first blown roadster engine that I remember reading of... It seems to be mainly the fortwos for some reason...

[Messerschmitt Owner]

Re: 700cc engine more durable than 600c?

many cars have engines that cost the best part of £3k before fitting - a recon engine can be bought for £700-800 and fitted inc turbo for £1500. With those kind of prices I have never worried and neither have all the people prepared to buy dead smarts to rreplace the engines.

With high residuals on seven and eight year old cars, it is worth the small expense of a new engine as it seems our cars reach a point where their value never decreases.

[ZorroReturns]

Re: 700cc engine more durable than 600c?

If youa re making sour cocktails that when you will have problems

[RacingSnake]

Re: 700cc engine more durable than 600c?

Stephane mentioned about his engine going at 50000 miles, and that was a Brabus I believe? (correct me if I'm wrong)

It was his Black roadie I believe!!!

An engine built and tuned like the smart engines are much less likely to go as far as any of these repmobile cars.
I wouldn't say there is a lot in it, I wouldn't be choosing the 700 over the 600 because of durability, I'd be picking it for driveability.
Given the extra displacement and relative lack of extra performance, you would make the judgement that this will have a bearing on engine life.
but I think it's more down to how it's been driven!

[T33NEY]

Re: 700cc engine more durable than 600c?

many cars have engines that cost the best part of £3k before fitting - a recon engine can be bought for £700-800 and fitted inc turbo for £1500. With those kind of prices I have never worried and neither have all the people prepared to buy dead smarts to rreplace the engines.

With high residuals on seven and eight year old cars, it is worth the small expense of a new engine as it seems our cars reach a point where their value never decreases.

Good points of course But chances are, a £3k engine is typically more durable than a 3 pot smart engine. In fact, vag 1.8T's are around the £3k mark too. Although its a very different engine so not an entirely fair comparison.
I only do maybe 6000 miles a year anyway so I don't think I have too much to worry about (famous last words eh!). But I do intend to tune this thing..
I guess my concern is that I do do the occasional road trip across Europe, and i trusted my VW so much, that when i last did this I didn't even take out any breakdown cover. Not bad for a well tuned fast car I think? But breakdown cover or not, i'd be pretty bummed if my smart engine split itself in 2 when I was in the middle of Spain or somewhere like that. What a palaver that would be! You know?? If it happened within a few miles of my own house I really would not mind so much, mostly for the reasons you mentioned.

But yes, as someone else pointed out, you'd hope that by the time of the 700cc engines coming out, Mercedes would have taken the opportunity to beef them up some.. So this is what I really want to know. Maybe someone who tunes and rebuilds 600-700cc smart engines can give some input?
Paul

[ColSmart]

Re: 700cc engine more durable than 600c?

I am now going to stir it up a bit

When I owned a VTEC Honda Delsol/CRX, they kept saying on the website, that the distributers were useless, because they kept disintigrating.

This problem was entirely due to owners driving the car like a banshee and gutting it, hence high speed, high reving, leads to quicker wear.

Drivers like myself drove the car for years without any trouble, because we kept away from the red line.

Now we come to the nitty grity with Smart cars, on the subject of engine and turbo wear. Here is the golden rule

If you keep away from the red line and do not gut these engines with speed, then they will give you many thousands of miles of trouble free motoring :wag:

So, I expect many will try to prove me wrong with what I said, and that fun driving and red lining are one and the same (Just as said in the Delsol site), but my Smart engine will stay in one piece and your won't.

Gives you something to think about