Difference btw 45, 54 and 61 hp engines

[ethanol-smart]

:newbie: and I searched a bit after the answer here in this forum but have to give up.
OK, so Im looking on the market for a nice Fortwo around YM 2000.
Now I have understood that all models in 450 have turbo...
And almost all by YM 2000 was 700 cc
So what is actually makes the difference between these power variants?
A TAN...?
I the Brabus the same engine as the 45?
Same cams, same turbo...? How about intercooler?
Which one is best to buy if I want power?
A 45 Hp that nobody chiped...? And then chip/ TAN it..?

[lil.smartie]

Re: Difference btw 45, 54 and 61 hp engines

A 2000 will be a 599cc. They will be either 54 or 61bhp depending on model, Pulses were 61 and Pures & Passions 54 (not sure on dates but around then there was also a 45 Pure) A Brabus SB1 kit would have brought power up to 74. All have the same engine & turbo from that era but have differences in cycle valve and ECU.
These don't use TAN's as such either as the ZEE unit (not a SAM) and so things like Cruise and Paddles need to be hard wired in instead of programmed.
A Pure would be a good base as it's going to be a lighter car to start from IIRC AC adds 50kg!

Kate

[ZorroReturns]

Re: Difference btw 45, 54 and 61 hp engines

Not all model pulse are 61ps. IIRC the mk5 was when the pulse was boosted (by overboost) to 61 from previously being 55ps

[Big Performance]

Re: Difference btw 45, 54 and 61 hp engines

Dan
Year 2000 cars were not mark 5 versions

[ZorroReturns]

Re: Difference btw 45, 54 and 61 hp engines

Dan
Year 2000 cars were not mark 5 versions

Sorry for the confusion, was replying to kates post about pulse power outputs, rather than the OP. You are right Ian, 2000MY is not a mk5. Thanks pointing it out

[J500ANT]

Re: Difference btw 45, 54 and 61 hp engines

Difference between 45 and 54 = 9bhp
Difference between 54 and 61 = 7bhp

Hope this helps.

[coolfart]

Re: Difference btw 45, 54 and 61 hp engines

I'd recommend getting a Pulse or Passion, I have seen Pure's that will not take a remap whatever is thrown at them... something about them being hardcoded IIRC.


After that, get a custom remap applied preferably somewhere with a rolling road on site to allowing maximum tweakage, I'd recommend speaking to S2Smarts/T4P.

Hope this helps.

Yes I would definatly agree with getting a pulse/passion to start with if you want to increase the power....Pures are a PITA!!

Don't think even S2Smarts will be able to help the OP, as he's a bit far away in Sweden! But I'm sure there must be a local company with rolling road that could be used to check on any improvements made?

[coolfart]

Re: Difference btw 45, 54 and 61 hp engines

:newbie: ...
And almost all by YM 2000 was 700 cc
..?

ALL 2000MY will be 600cc.....the 700cc engine didn't appear until around 2003 If you are looking to get a lot of power from any smart, it will be a lot easier to start off with a 700 engine! While it may not seem like a great difference, a 700 (roadster based engine) can be fairly easily tuned to about 125bhp...whereas anything over 100bhp from a 600 is pushing things slightly!

[ethanol-smart]

Re: Difference btw 45, 54 and 61 hp engines

Thanks for all info, now really I start to get the picture!
I started to look on Smaret for my wife since we have a bad uphill here wintertime, my wife wants automatic gearbox, and I hate front wheel drive...
Now I have learned that the Smart is one of the most exciting little cars that can be bought, today even for ridiculus money!:thanx:
And the tuning field will be a BIG extra bonus. I actually didnt realize the potential until now.
And can it be that all these damaged engines actually origins from too stressed conditions from all this over-tuning? Maybe in combination with bad/no service after some years?
Is it that simple? What do the engine restorers here say?

Now, I still then lean on to get a Pure (or in fact the 45 Hp) for two(three maybe) reasons only:
1. They should be cheaper since most want to easily chip tune these cars and if its more difficult on a Pure, and I anyway probably not will go over 80 Hp in the end, the car is meant to last and it is not me who will drive it (I think..)

2. there is a big chance then, that I can find one that have not been tampered with and therefore is in good mechanical condition (I will buy in Autobahn-land...)

3. For me, the softwareproblem for the Pure might not be a problem, because I plan to either add a piggy-back system, or a completely new ECU from a tuning company (or a combination). Reason for this advanced approach is that I want to easily change all parameters, including running lean on low load, modify all settings during driving etc etc
It seems such systems can now be found for under 1200 Eu

Does all this make sense?

[T4P]

Re: Difference btw 45, 54 and 61 hp engines

I think you are getting a bit carried away....one minute you are saying that you want a good small reliable car to run around then you floor your argument by talking about piggy-back...custom ecu..real time fuel midification...WHAT IS THAT ALL ABOUT!!

You will need more that 1200 euros for your ecu, needs to be programmed not only to run the engine but gearbox and communicate with the rest of the controllers on can bus.

You are looking at 600cc engine with a small turbo designed for economic city running and you want to modify it as it it was a big muscle car!!

This level of electronic management in this car is wasted, the meg is quite capable of managing your 80+hp.

[ethanol-smart]

Re: Difference btw 45, 54 and 61 hp engines

I think you are getting a bit carried away....one minute you are saying that you want a good small reliable car to run around then you floor your argument by talking about piggy-back...custom ecu..real time fuel midification...WHAT IS THAT ALL ABOUT!!

You will need more that 1200 euros for your ecu, needs to be programmed not only to run the engine but gearbox and communicate with the rest of the controllers on can bus.

You are looking at 600cc engine with a small turbo designed for economic city running and you want to modify it as it it was a big muscle car!!

This level of electronic management in this car is wasted, the meg is quite capable of managing your 80+hp.

Thanks for your opinion, T4P!
I agree that it might look strange, but the thing is that Im into engine development via my own company, and especially in alterantive fuels.

So for research reasons, I can do what I will do also on larger engines later.
I think the Smart would be a perfect testbed.

The main objective here is to get a good function with ethanol, also in wintertime, better performance since its so simple on a Smart, and better fuel economy than on petrol (specific fuel consumption is possible to improve with ethanol, by the means of optimezed ignition and lean running.
On a turbo, there is also the possibility to remove "cooling fuel" that normally is mapped in on a gasoline engine)

We will see where this end..

[T4P]

Re: Difference btw 45, 54 and 61 hp engines

Are you talking about running this engine purely on ETHANOL or Exx blends?

[ethanol-smart]

Re: Difference btw 45, 54 and 61 hp engines

Are you talking about running this engine purely on ETHANOL or Exx blends?

Both!
E85 is widely availible here in Sweden but I also have some other plans for running on E96...

[vespaman]

Re: Difference btw 45, 54 and 61 hp engines

Have you also checked the (very slow) Swedish Smart forum? I think there are people that /are/has been/ running at on least E85 there. Not sure if it is OK link to another forum, so PM me if you don't know of it! Not sure about E96 though.

[ethanol-smart]

Re: Difference btw 45, 54 and 61 hp engines

Have you also checked the (very slow) Swedish Smart forum? I think there are people that /are/has been/ running at on least E85 there. Not sure if it is OK link to another forum, so PM me if you don't know of it! Not sure about E96 though.

Thanks Vespa, I have seen the Sw forum. Maybe can find some info there, will see.
To be onest, SmartManiacs seems to be the most active of them all!!:star:
But maybe the germans have the biggest, for those who have skills in that language...