Oil breather pipe - valve

[heinkeljb]

Re: Oil breather pipe - valve

I assume you have plugged the pipe that goes in to the throttle body? Only problem I can see is that the area around that filter is going to end up with a light coating of oil mist which over time is going to turn black.

John

[cttan9832]

Re: Oil breather pipe - valve

thanks tolsen help me to post it up.

[cttan9832]

Re: Oil breather pipe - valve

hi heinkeljb,
Yes i plug it by using a rubber cap. You r right it will be a light coating of oil maybe in few months later, but the vent filter is washable.

[ethanol-smart]

Re: Oil breather pipe - valve

Interesting mod!
Was there any change in oilconsumption or blue smoke?

[ethanol-smart]

Re: Oil breather pipe - valve

I have one question about this mod:

http://www.evilution.co.uk/index.php?id=410

In the bottom it says:

If you route the lower breather pipe to an oil catch tank there are two things you must do.
The inlet of the catch tank should be below the level of the lower breather outlet.
This is so any condensed oil will run into the catch tank and not back into the engine.

OK, but why is it negative that the condensed oil is run back to the engine and not into the tank?
The oil should to be inside the crankcase, not in a catchtank...
If there is an ineffective oil separation from the breather pipes, why not run longer pipes upwards in order to collect first oil mist and condense it in order to return it back where it should be?

[madDan]

Re: Oil breather pipe - valve

stop using the quick reply!

[ethanol-smart]

Re: Oil breather pipe - valve

stop using the quick reply!

??

[ethanol-smart]

Re: Oil breather pipe - valve

The more I read ablut this matter on the net, the more confused I get.
Just one example:

http://www.smart-forum.de/modules.php?op=modload&name=Forum&file=viewtopic&topic=33233&forum=19

Google translator of the second last post in that thread started to get reallyinteresting:

Hello, the solution to the oil separator seems to function, or are there now other findings? The oil is leaking from the valve cover breather seems to worsen with increasing mileage. When we had it after about 85,000 km of the case, the case of the intercooler is heavily oiled, the management of the valve cover breather also. Does anyone know the real reason? This should in my opinion be within the engine. The solution to the oil separator helps even just to get the visual impact (oil spots under the car) to the handle. With the oil separator by Udo seems the oil consumption to decline. Is there an explanation? Theoretically but exit via the vent valve cover as much as without the oil separator, remain the same ie the oil consumption would. My CDI consumes about 4.5 to 5 currently l/100km, this can be related to the loss of oil?

But then that thread died...why?
If we have large amounts of oil coming in the vented gases from the valvecover/ crankcase, why is not the simple solution to just separate the oil and lead it back in liquid form to the crankcase in some way?
I think most of us who see high high oil consumption also have lots of oil in the charge air cooler and the area of the throttle.
Is it strange then that the engine burns oil?
If there is not turboleakage, which seems to be fairly unusual on our low mileage cars, the only other reason must be a bad working crankcase ventilation.
Many seems to suddenly see a higher consumption, this is strange, can it be a slightly increase in blow by, which not is enough to indicate a too high (over) pressure in the crancase, but in some way flushes gasboubbles through the oil in the oil ring gooves or something, even if no rings still are stuck or filled with coke? The oil then boils locally and high amounts of oil steam is to be taken care of by the under dimensioned crankcase ventilation which only ends in a large vertical drop into the TIC before being sucked back into the fresh air feed to the engine...

If this is the case, wouldnt an improved oilseparation then be a simple and good solution?
The cases with highly cooked oil ring woul dmost likely be engine with have burning a lot of oil for years, partly due to the horror information from SC that an oil consumption of 0.8l/1000 km is "normal".
Come on, not even a highly stressed motorcycle normally are even close to this numbers!

What do you all think about this, do we take care of the problem in the correct way by only ASAP changing oilrings ?

[Thrumbleux]

Re: Oil breather pipe - valve

I think most of us who see high high oil consumption also have lots of oil in the charge air cooler and the area of the throttle.

On my mind also ES.
On over-run, the vacuum is contained within the inlet manifold by the closed throttle plate. Now go back on throttle and before boost has built, the induction system is in vacuum. At this point the compressor is an obstruction and there will be low pressure in the vicinity of its bearings.

Not so for the CDI as no vacuum to transition from, so at least atmospheric pressure at all times.
The Roadsters have a larger turbo, presenting less of an obstruction off-boost.

Any thoughts - before I go test the theory with hard parts?

[tolsen]

Re: Oil breather pipe - valve

Mine, a Cdi, does not loose oil any more. Initially I directed the oil vapour to the mother of all catch tanks:


Above solution left numerous black oil stains on my drive so I went for a mark 3 solution:



I googled for weeks hoping to source an existing separator but could not find anything sufficiently compact that would to fit. Taught myself metal spinning and produced this:


Made from 15 & 28 mm copper pipe and 15 mm copper street elbows.


Mark 3 separator fitted. Oil separated out is plumbed back to the sump via lower part of dip stick sounding tube.


Initially I used a clear plastic pipe so I could visually check whether oil was being returned to sump.

Amount of oil separated out is 0.07 cm3 per km driven which equals 700 cm3 oil collected per 10,000 km, hence same volume as the contents of a bottle of Lidl Queen Margot whisky although different taste.

I no longer have to top up between oil changes. Oil level stays almost constant. No more oil stains on drives.

[ethanol-smart]

Re: Oil breather pipe - valve

Now we are talking!
What kept you guys so long from trying this????
I love the cyclone, some cars have exactly this design, for instance Merc 4-cylinders from 1968-to 1980....
I think there can be several effective solutions, but if this really reduces the oilconsumption on a CDI, I see it as proven fact now that at least part of the problem is in a bad crankcase ventilation oil separation!
Well done, Tolsen!
(How did Mark 1 look?)

Really, how many here have tested at all with catchtank solutions which in some way separates out the oil mist in our cars crank case ventilation?
And how many did then measure any improvement in oilsmoke and/or consumption?
Is this a colombi egg or just somehing that seldom is found to improve?

About Thrumbleux idea, well, that might be a reason too, on a petrol!
And an explanation for the worse performance regarding oil consumption on the petrols too.
But isnt this then the case for all turboengines? And excessive oil consumption on modern turbo cars is very unusaul as long as there havent been any severe mistreat of the oil or similar.
Anyway how did you want to test your theory? With a large checkvalve connected to atmoshere, securing no vacuum before throttle?

[tolsen]

Re: Oil breather pipe - valve

(How did Mark 1 look?)

Like this:

It never moved off the drawing table as I could find no free space to place it.

Mark 3 works very well but won't separate out all hot oil vapour so there is still a small amount of oil that condenses inside charge cooler. For that reason I'm working on mark 4 which essentially is mark 3 with the addition of a condenser at the top.

[tolsen]

Re: Oil breather pipe - valve

One can also chose to live with the existing breather system and just fit an auto bilge pump suction at bottom of charge cooler. Two float switches: High level switches bilge pump on and low level to switch off. Alternatively, just run bilge pump for a few seconds each time ignition is turned on.
Yes, I did consider above Heath Robinson solution but came to my senses and decided to attach the problem at its source.

[ethanol-smart]

Re: Oil breather pipe - valve

One can also chose to live with the existing breather system and just fit an auto bilge pump suction at bottom of charge cooler. Two float switches: High level switches bilge pump on and low level to switch off. Alternatively, just run bilge pump for a few seconds each time ignition is turned on.
Yes, I did consider above Heath Robinson solution but came to my senses and decided to attach the problem at its source.

This I dont agree on.
I just looked into my charge air cooler, and it is oily inside, but no standing oil at all in fact.
Anyway, the engine burns oil and the throttle is oily in its inlet.
I think the mist normally is going straight through the charge air cooler and ends up in the inlet.

[ethanol-smart]

Re: Oil breather pipe - valve

It never moved off the drawing table as I could find no free space to place it.

Hmm, this is because you want to place the tank high enough to allow fall flow directly to the crank case?
Many are selling catch tanks, but I asssume them all to be placed lower in fact, this for instance:

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Smart-fortwo-450-599ccm-Olabscheider-Ol-Abscheider-/320939125395?pt=DE_Autoteile&hash=item4ab9766a93#ht_1074wt_998

Then the tank needs to be emptied regularily.