DIY sump/ oil pan heater

[Evilution]

I'm assuming that inside the metal tube, the element is encased in ceramic or some such. Maybe some support at intervals along the shaft may help. I really think this is one of those things that people can talk about for ever but until it's actually tested, no one can really be sure on the outcome. Hopefully Tolsen will keep us up to date with how well it is working over time.

[mottofreee]

In oil movement occurs due to the temperature difference.
Heating resistance is inertial, oil is a kind of coolant so you will not get to warm up to hundreds of degrees resistance . Engine oil heated to 80 degrees but the heat source has the power to 30kW!
Power Electrotechnical devices are cooled with oil. Power electrotechnical can be likened to a resistance ...
As the heater, it is cast in cement and inserted into a metal tube .So, to what extent can affect a frequency so low?
Answer may lie in marine engine preheater to preheat .I'll definitely have to mount the engine 8-710G3A General Motors and a valve (driven electro / manual) after system Tolsen-that for thermal comfort.

[Thrumbleux]

@ Thrumbleux: There was no vibration either!

On an CI inline triple ? Nah!.......

[tolsen]

Pan heater passed its first test with flying colours. Filled with 2.6 litres of fresh Lidl oil. Turned heater on. Maximum temperature reached was 55 C. No discolouring of the oil hence to evidence of oil being burnt. Ambient temperature at time of test was 0 C.

@ Thrumbleux: There was no vibration either!

[Thrumbleux]

No need since its natural vibrating frequency is much higher than engine frequencies, hence cannot be exited, see one of the previous posts for further details.

Just because it doesn't join in.....doesn't mean it doesn't get a good shaking!
(I'm paranoid about destructive vibes. I'll tell you about the fabricated alternator bracket on a Ford Kent some day...)

[tolsen]

I'm still concerned that vibration will be problem. Lying horizontally it will experience bending loads at its mounting from the primary vibration which can be quite severe at idle. Possibly I'm being over cautious - and there isn't an obvious method to restrain its other end.

Check this one out:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wolverine-Oil-Pan-Heater-500-Watt-110-120-Volt-AC-11-75-034-Cummins-ISX-Engines-/221620380059?_trksid=p2054897.l4275

Cummins oil pan heater 10.75 x 0.75 inch. 500 Watts. Mine is 161 x 11.1 mm. 150 Watts. By pure coincidence, mine is an exact scaled down version of Cummins'.

There is indeed an easy way to pin the free end simply by adding a sliding support. No need since its natural vibrating frequency is much higher than engine frequencies, hence cannot be exited, see one of the previous posts for further details.

[Kapt. Q]

The oil will naturally circulate gently around the element as currents will be created by the heat. This effect is used and maximised in the coolant circuit through the turbo to allow continued cooling after the engine is switched off.

Cheers!

[Thrumbleux]

My brain obviously did not consider vibration being a problem.

I'm still concerned that vibration will be problem. Lying horizontally it will experience bending loads at its mounting from the primary vibration which can be quite severe at idle. Possibly I'm being over cautious - and there isn't an obvious method to restrain its other end.

I checked for obstructions and won't even be near oil suction pipe.

Good!

I also checked oil level in sump to be sure element would be submerged.

I wonder how effective it will be heating the bulk of the oil with the oil lying stagnant around what is a somewhat localised heat source. Time will tell I guess.
The underlying idea is good though - prewarmed oil can only help given that the bulk of engine wear occurs within the first three minutes of cold start-up, and most of it due to the inability of the cold thick oil to circulate freely.

[tolsen]

You have a short memory then! `I cited this as a reason for not wanting one when you suggested one a few weeks back.

Just in case this has been overlooked....the element's potential to obstruct the suction pipe.

My brain obviously did not consider vibration being a problem. I checked for obstructions and won't even be near oil suction pipe. I also checked oil level in sump to be sure element would be submerged.

[Thrumbleux]

Vibration won't be an issue as it'll be damped by the oil. The only concern I would have is directly heating the oil over a small area. If the car is not running and the oil isn't moving, is there a chance of burning the oil which would reduce the lubricating qualities..

If the element is designed for heating water then temp should be less than 100C to prevent localised boiling. Oil will take higher and it takes upwards of 200C IIRC (ring belt temp) to carbonise engine oils.

I don't know how hot these get. Do you know of a similar thing but runs on 12v? I've been looking for a suitable windscreen washer tank heater for years.

Can't you spur some coolant off into a copper tube immersed in the reservoir prior to it entering the radiator? Not as quick acting as electrical heater but once up to temp.If you just want hot water at the jets wrap the supply pipe around the radiator top hose a few turns - or build a small heat exchanger of the type that were marketed several years back.

[Thrumbleux]

Good point raised there captain and something I had overlooked.

You have a short memory then! `I cited this as a reason for not wanting one when you suggested one a few weeks back.

Just in case this has been overlooked....the element's potential to obstruct the suction pipe.

[tolsen]

PTC elements are self regulating. Their heat output drops as they get hotter. They can even be turned on dry with no risk of burning out element. Heat flux is 2.6 Watt per cm2. I doubt it will burn the oil. Heat flux from a 6 inch frying pan is much more typically 11 Watt per cm and we know that is high enough to burn oil.
I'll test it out with 2.5 litres of oil before fitting. It will be interesting to see how hot the oil gets. I doubt it will go much above 90 C.

I suggest you use a 24 volt glow plug for your washer tank. That ought to work. Glow plugs typically draw 10 A so only 5 A if you use a 24 volt glow plug in a 12 volt system. A much easier option is to weigh down a bulb and immerse in your washer tank.

[dervsmart]

Do you know of a similar thing but runs on 12v? I've been looking for a suitable windscreen washer tank heater for years.

This is something I've thought about, I came up a diesel glow plug or two submerged in the washer reservoir, obviously they would need to be mounted in such a way that they don't melt the reservoir itself, but that wouldn't be difficult.

[Evilution]

Vibration won't be an issue as it'll be damped by the oil. The only concern I would have is directly heating the oil over a small area. If the car is not running and the oil isn't moving, is there a chance of burning the oil which would reduce the lubricating qualities. I don't know how hot these get. Do you know of a similar thing but runs on 12v? I've been looking for a suitable windscreen washer tank heater for years.

[tolsen]

Natural frequency of the 150 Watt PTC heater is 187 Hz. It can therefore not be excited by vibrations caused by a turning engine.