My first Smart!

[Gearman]

Hi, everyone!

I'm a guy from Brazil who relocated into Germany recently (then what the hell am I doing in a uk club? Simple. This place has more info available than others, is more organized than others and I don't have to fry my brains out trying to read german.) and I just bought my first Smart Fortwo. I will pick it up on monday.

I got myself a 2009 Pure MHD with no accessories and am already thinking about some stuff I could do with it, so I'd like to ask you a few questions.

First, I would like to have electric windows, but couldn't find kits or tutorials. Saw somewhere that this might be a bad idea, but no explanation. Do you know anything about retrofitting electric windows?

Second, why do some 451s have the temp indicator on the LCD and some do not?

I might sign up for evilution soon, lots of cool stuff over there, but I want to get my hands on the car first.

Cheers everyone!

[cougar7609]

Re: My first Smart!

Hi and welcome

I think all the smarts have electric windows, but I may be wrong,the earlier Pures may not have them but the Pure I have certainly has them, but thats a 2013 car. You would need to get the partss if you wanted to add them if your car doesnt already have them, and that may mean you need new door cards as well, Im not sure.

The Temperature gauge was removed by Smart because they think that people dont ever look at it. Something about the public being too stupid to understand how cars work! Very much like BMW removing the dipstick on their cars so you only know youve run out of oil when the light comes on and the engines cooked! or you refill the oil and put too much in because you cant tell the oil level. You can access the oil level in them but you have to go through 900 menus to find it. The same thing happens with the MHD smarts, they dont have a temperature gauge so when the MHD belt snaps your engine over heats and the engines had it! That will be a £3000 bill please says the greedy dealership.

The MHD cars are talked about in these forums in great detail, including how poor they are. Ill be getting rid of my MHD as soon as the moneys saved up. Really you need a £3000 discount just for taking an MHD off the hands of the dealer otherwise they arent worth buying. But as you already have one the first thing I would do is replace the MHD (aux) belt. Just for piece of mind.

Evilution is great and well worth the money

[Gearman]

Re: My first Smart!

Hi, Cougar!

Thanks for the reply.

I have already agreed with the dealer I'd just take the car with a new belt. I read the forum before buying the car and I'm aware of the belt problem, so I'm ready to pull over if the battery charge light pops on. Also, I intend to get a gauge for temperature ASAP. After all it's a EUR18,00 belt and changing it every 10000k won't hurt that much, I think. Or am I wrong?

Cheers!

[ColSmart]

Re: My first Smart!

ENGINE TEMPERATURE
A good way to keep an eye on your engine temperature (especially for an MHD) is to buy a Digital display Ultragauge, which plugs into the diagnostic socket, and you can set up the engine temperature and an alarm setpoint which warns you of over temperature. It also allows quite a number of gauges to be displayed. See http://www.ultra-gauge.com/ultragauge/index.htm

Unfortunately you can only buy from the USA at the moment, and is $61. Mountings are extra, plus international postage and customs tax extra.

MANUAL to ELECTRIC WINDOWS (Smart retrofit) not so easy
As for your manual windows, the 451 PURE was for a time supplied with these, and electric windows were an optional extra. I had the 450 PURE years ago, and they were electric, so things have went backwards for you, as Smart went a bit mean

You could try retrofiting Smart windows, but you would have to check if the wiring goes into your doors, (look at the hinge and see if there is a wiring loom going in to the doors).

Also you would have to fit the electrical/mechanical parts inside the doors to operate the window, including switches.

Also, like most modern cars the upper limit and lower limit of the window are most likely controlled by computer nowadays, so might need programming into the computer. In other words its a lot of money time and effort to retrofit with Smart parts.

MANUAL to ELECTRIC WINDOWS (Ebay aftermarket retrofit). Easier to do
You could do what I did in a basic Citreon C1 which came with manual windows, and that is add an aftermarket electric window kit.

You can buy electric motors that fit directly over the the spine of the winder, but they are ugly because they are seen over the door cards, they are also quite noisy being direct drive onto the spindle.

Instead, I bought gear driven motors where the motor is about 350mm away from the spine of the winder and all is hidden inside the door (assuming there is space enough in a Fortwo door gap). These are very quiet, sound like factory fitted, and do a better stop, at top and bottom travel, as its gear driven.

The kit usually comprises of two switches and two geardriven motors. You have to wire it up yourself, but does come with instructions. (You can also get kits where the drivers side switch is two switches, so controls the drivers and passenger window, but does need more complicated wiring, The passenger side has one switch controling its window, I bought this kit)

Here is an example of a geardriven window winder motor...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Universal-Car-Van-2-Door-Power-Electric-Windows-Conversion-Kit-Lighted-Switch-/181355865453?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2a39a6e56d

Note: Before buying you do have to check with seller that the spindle adapter ring is correct for the Smart fortwo spindle. Some kits come with a lot of adapters, and one should be suitable for your make of car, but its better to check first with seller.

One problem when finished is that you are left with a round hole where the spindle is, so I solved this by fitting a tweeter (speaker) over the hole, you can see this and where I fitted the window switch on my C1 in the picture below. You could come up with your own ideas on how to finish off the doors ....

WIRING....
Some more expensive kits supply the fuses and wiring. I wired in 4mm cable which came with the kit, as the current in the motors are initally quite high on startup, so voltdrop can be a problem if you do not use these large size cables of 4mm, (a big voltdrop would slow the speed of window movement).

[Gearman]

Re: My first Smart!

Hey ColSmart!

What are those motors that go directly in the spine? Do you have any links?? I googled it, no luck!

Cheers!

[ColSmart]

Re: My first Smart!

Sorry, just checked on google, I did not realise they seem to have done away with them, too old fashioned I think, so you may have trouble finding those 'direct fit motors over the door cards' type.

Usually when I say that, someone says, you can still buy them at {insert shop name}...

I fitted them on a Ford Escort back in the 1990's (yes, that long ago). You still had to take the door cards off to do the wiring. They looked horrible sticking out of the door card, and they were so noisy, as the end of travel stop was done by a ratchet built into the motor. No wonder no-one wants that type nowadays.

So it seems if you want to DIY (do it yourself), then you need a kit using the modern gear driven method, there's plenty to choose from on Ebay.

EXAMPLE...
Here is an example of how you fit the gear driven motor (the door shown is not a Fortwo).

You would have to check if the electric motor can fit ok inside the fortwo door gap, it must not hit the glass window, when it is down. You would also have to check how you can physically fit the motor to the door.

NOT A FORTWO DOOR



FORTWO DOOR (looking from outside)

There is not much metal in a Fortwo door, so you would likely need to fit additional metal plate to hold the gear driven motor, its quite a challenge.

The old fashioned 'direct fit over the door card' type of motor, would have been easier to fit, on the Fortwo. If you can still find them.

[Gearman]

Re: My first Smart!

Hey Colsmart!

Thanks for the explanation. I will take a further look into it and try to find out if it is possible to use one of those kits in the same place the original window motors are fitted in the ForTwo.

By the way, how about buying those motors from a scrapyard? Having power windows would be nice for two reasons: First, the cranks are really bad and heavy. Second, my knee bumps on them all the time.

As for the temperature, I'm looking into some options as the ScanGauge II, TurboGauge IV, Diamex and maybe a Bluetooth adapter with Torque for Android. Bluetooth is cheap and Torque gauges look great, however there is the inconvenience of finding a way to power up a tablet or something in a way that it doesn't look horrible. Also there is the issue of fitting such a big display in such a small car. I am already bothered by my GPS on the windshield, so I might end up going with one of the OBD2 board computers above.

Cheers!

[cougar7609]

Re: My first Smart!

Here is a review I wrote in another thread about the ultragauge. There are quite a few OBD2 monitors available but this is by far the best Ive used. Plus its almost an essential on any MHD smart because it sounds an alarm when it senses the levels go below or above those that you have set, in the settings. No other gauge has this feature that I know of and its where more established manufacturers have fallen behind.

"Mine arrived this morning, 5 days in total, pretty quick from the US to France. There were no extra charges and everything was in the box as I ordered. Ive plugged it in and done its tests, its easy to set up. It takes some time to set alarms etc but its a one off task.
So far its been great, Ive run it with the engine running and its easy to see in bright light (the suns out atm here ) Now all I have to do is get it all setup and fitted in and I believe Im done

@Adrimo :This does also work in my 450 (Mk5 2001) as well so anyone wanting to buy it for their 450 shouldnt have any problems. It supports both CAN and the older KWP protocols. My 450 uses the KWP protocol and that works fine. Im not sure about the 450 before 2000 though as Im not sure what protocol was used. The OBDII port is under the dash, drivers side, as part of the ZEE, SAM.

On First Impressions I think I will be getting one of these for the MX5 and the 450 because its so useful. The only thing that worries me a little is that it cant be left in the dashboard when its a hot day according to the documentation. This is a bit of a pain because it can get pretty hot here and there is no way of disconnecting it because of the fixed wire. Only by removing it from its mount and letting it dangle or in a pocket would work. "