Originally posted by longdistancecdi
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New Smart Fortwo 453 launches today at 18:00pm GMT.
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The look of the 453 isn't something new. Way back in the heyday of Smart, there was a concept in this shape as a 4x4
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Originally posted by Evilution View Post
Easy mistake to make, it's just bad reporting on their behalf. It was only up to 2006.
I put that rumour to some guys I know who work for smart and they said it's not true. The average warranty claim per Roadster was only about £200, mainly for new seals. It was only the RHD version of the Roadster that really suffered from water in the SAM. It's not unknown but a lot more rare on LHD cars. The Roadster was cancelled because smart couldn't afford to manufacture the parts for it and the parts for the 451. It was a different story when they part shared with the fortwo. So when the 451 came along, the Roadster went away.
On the plus side though, it was good kudos for the brand to launch with a sportscar. Certainly got people's attention.
Originally posted by Evilution View PostThe 450 was the killer. If you think they had to build a brand new factory, create a brand new, never done before type of car and break into a new market with an unknown brand.
The only way they could do it was to seriously undercut the price of the car and slowly bring the price up as they became well known. That's why the 1st smarts cost £6000 and now they start at £9000.
I bought my 05 Pure when it was 6 months old with 4000 miles under its wheels (dealer courtesy car) for £6000 exactly! It's proven to be a good buy.
Originally posted by Evilution View PostConsidering the retail value of this car is expected to be £29,000 you sort of expect it to look nice. People who buy a lotus are a completely different demographic to those who buy a smart.
Unfortunately smart would never chance making something looking evil like that. They have to make happy looking plastic cars for women.
Prettiness isn't a cost issue and the new ForTwo is just plain ugly. In an image obsessed world it is the Elephant Man of the automotive world. That's a hell of a handicap when the brand still - after all these years - hasn't gained universal acceptance. I honestly think MB are making an arse of managing the smart brand. They need to look to Munich for lessons.Just look at how Mini sold on looks alone. Merely because it didn't look like all the other econobox hatches of the time - even though in many instances they were better engineered beneath the skin and more spacious to boot - especially the boot. But it did look like something people wanted to be seen in. If you see me in 453 please be respectful and remove your hat....
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Looking forward to hearing feedback once the cars are available in the UK (November supposedly...) We'll be visiting mid-October so will just miss them. Lots of grumbling on SCoA and Club Smart Car sites - change is always hard for some people. Like Corvettes, the best smart is always the current one and the 453 looks like a winner to me. Haven't seen anything on a 453 BRABUS yet but can only hope there will be one. Whether we get it in North America is another question. If we do, I'll be on the list; after having owned three 451s I'm ready for the 453!
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Originally posted by Ocracoke View Post
I had read an article where the Smart (for which thy pictured a 451 cabrio) and the Bugatti Veyron was in the same table for losing money for their respective manufacturers (and presented a picture of the two facing each other to demonstrate the stark difference). Evidently, I was wrong. Apologies.
Originally posted by Thrumbleux View Post
But it was the Roadster's warranty claims for leaks that nearly sunk smart.
The 450 was the killer. If you think they had to build a brand new factory, create a brand new, never done before type of car and break into a new market with an unknown brand.
The only way they could do it was to seriously undercut the price of the car and slowly bring the price up as they became well known. That's why the 1st smarts cost £6000 and now they start at £9000.
Originally posted by Thrumbleux View PostWhat I'd hoped it might look like...
.
Unfortunately smart would never chance making something looking evil like that. They have to make happy looking plastic cars for women.
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Originally posted by SmarterAlex View PostThis is a car they want to sell in USA, and I know, drivers want a car to face up to all the other big aggressive cars they have. .
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I wrote a long email in reply to another email that Daimler sent me explaining all of the points that have been brought up here, funnily enough they havent replied this time! I think they are having quite a few people say the same thing judging by some other things Ive read about it.
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Perhaps 4 wheel drive coming...... Hybrid electric front wheel drive.
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This is a car they want to sell in USA, and I know, drivers want a car to face up to all the other big aggressive cars they have. Are 4 wheels the same size now? Usually big on the back and small on the front, helps give it that rear engine drive character. The steel frame is fixed in production now, but the rest is just styling, Easier to redefine with a product update in a few years time.
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Originally posted by Hogster View Post
I'm very disappointed that Smart, the defacto economical car company haven't offered a diesel engine for the ForTwo, and instead just two petrol engines which might get about 70mpg. Through careful driving I'm currently averaging 91mpg on my 2012 cdi and I had hoped the new cars, fitted with the latest engine technology would have been even more economical
Originally posted by Hogster View PostManual gearbox? Potentially better for economy, but the semi-auto gearbox was one of the funnest things about the smart, particularly in traffic jams.
Except the manual has no inherent efficiency advantage over an AMT.
Originally posted by Hogster View PostI guess the new tip-tronic gearbox will appeal to those who found the old smart engine gearbox too clunky and slow, even if it comes with a heavy price tag.
The AMT could have (and should have) been developed into a smooth working box offering the best fuel efficiency of any transmission. It's all in the software - which MB are masters of. It's why they lead the F1 championship. More boldly they could have mildly hybridized using Zytek's already available system which delivers seamless acceleration but Zytek aren't MB smart who just cannot shake off their NIHness.
Originally posted by Hogster View PostI'll wait to see one in the flesh before completely writing it off, although they do seem to have missed the mark on many points ... I'm impressed that they've reduced the length, tightened the turning circle and improved the ride though
David
I suspect in creating the 453 smart looked long and hard at Toyota's IQ. Unfortunately, they adopted all that is bad about it.
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Originally posted by Evilution View PostIncorrect. The 450 lost money, the 451 was the only car they were selling when they started making a profit. The Forfour lost money faster than the fortwo, that's why it only lived for just over 2 years.
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Originally posted by cougar7609 View PostI really like the design of that renault, what is its name if it even has a name? .
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Originally posted by Hogster View Post...I'm very disappointed that Smart, the defacto economical car company haven't offered a diesel engine for the ForTwo,....
Quite a few owners have had to replace their Cdi for a petrol, via some type of compensation by Smart, due to this, as they said it was not fit for purpose as a 'town car only'.
It is never a problem, as long as you do some motorway or A road faster driving, and the burn off cycle happens.
But I do agree, that the Cdi gives a lot better fuel performance, My Passion Cdi gives around the 80MPG mark.
Yes, Pity, it was deleted. from the engine options.
Just hope that the new 3rd gen Fortwo Renault petrol engines give far better fuel results than the 451 petrol engines.Last edited by ColSmart; 18-07-14, 09:18 AM.
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Hmmm I don't know ... part of me finds the front fugly, but I do recall I found the 451 fugly at first but I grew to love it, and I've now owned one for 2.5 years! Do you think they had to add the 'bonnet' to improve the pedestrian safety vs. having a bonnet that follows the curve of the windscreen? It does look rather odd
I'm very disappointed that Smart, the defacto economical car company haven't offered a diesel engine for the ForTwo, and instead just two petrol engines which might get about 70mpg. Through careful driving I'm currently averaging 91mpg on my 2012 cdi and I had hoped the new cars, fitted with the latest engine technology would have been even more economical
Manual gearbox? Potentially better for economy, but the semi-auto gearbox was one of the funnest things about the smart, particularly in traffic jams. I guess the new tip-tronic gearbox will appeal to those who found the old smart engine gearbox too clunky and slow, even if it comes with a heavy price tag.
I'll wait to see one in the flesh before completely writing it off, although they do seem to have missed the mark on many points ... I'm impressed that they've reduced the length, tightened the turning circle and improved the ride though
DavidLast edited by Hogster; 18-07-14, 08:54 AM.
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Incorrect. The 450 lost money, the 451 was the only car they were selling when they started making a profit. The Forfour lost money faster than the fortwo, that's why it only lived for just over 2 years.
Reference: http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/in...ss-making-carsLast edited by Ocracoke; 18-07-14, 08:16 AM.
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