engine noise @3000 rpm

[peanut450]

Please can this be listened to and suggestions as to what it is .
Thanks

[Thrumbleux]

Rattling heat shield.

[peanut450]

I wish it was nothing is loose .
Engine is normal up to @3000 then the knocking noise starts and gets less above@4500.Seems to be bit less on cold engine.

[Thrumbleux]

If that racket is from inside the engine then I shudder to thing what you'll find.
How does it drive - down on power? If so, possibly a broken rocker arm. Anything visible via the oil filler re timing chain? Any signs of metal on the oil (put a drop on tissue paper and view in bright light for metallic particles. Use magnet to identify steel/iron).

[peanut450]

I have spent the last week replacing the cam chain as it was worn/loose and hoped that the noise was the chain but was not.Did not notice any damage on valve train.
When driving if I change gear below 3000 you get a noise like a crunchy gear change that gets slightly less in higher gears almost no noise into 6th gear.
Power seems ok will do 70mph. MPG is @57.
Has been making noise for @5000 miles but is worse now.
Hydraulic tappets ?
Thanks

[Thrumbleux]

If it wasn't for it coming from the RHS, I'd wonder about the clutch.
With the engine running and the oil filler cap removed, can the noise be heard to be at the top end of the engine (eg hyd tappet)?
If it's from lower (crank) there'd be swarf - surely?

[peanut450]

I have just tipped the oil that was taken out to do the chain and I diluted the last few 100ml with petrol and filtered through kitchen roll and I could see some tiny metal particles not magnetic.
Could not see any metal on the dipstick so I removed 500ml of the fresh oil and did the same and there are some tiny metal fragments. Webp.net-resizeimage (5).jpg
So now I am going to drain oil drop sump and see whats going on-big ends ?

[Thrumbleux]

You could probably find more particles in the filter but identifying white metal from aluminium alloy won't be easy.
Any method of hooking up a pressure gauge to check oil pressure?
Not looking too good. Suspect you may be right re big ends. More than one by the sound and possibly mains also. Was it starved of oil at any point that you know of? I presume everything you saw when you changed the cam chain was OK - including tensioner?

edit PS. Maybe, if shells are shot, there will be particles of copper in the oil filter. The only source of copper is the shells.

[peanut450]

Have found a few more particles in the filter/sump I think some were copper colour.
I was expecting more and larger pieces.
No way to check oil pressure not aware of oil stavation
When I changed the chain tensioner was ok but the chain was very slack and the black guide was not hooked over the pin but was not damaged.I replaced chain/tensioner black guide rail and the oil spray bar.
Was thinking of removing big ends from underneath but can see that is impossible.
I think I have done as much as I can now .Any recommended Smart repairers near Huntingdon Cambs ?
Thanks

[mottofreee]

Inspect video rocker. With the endoscope, on the oil filler socket.
Check engine touch points with the frame.
Engine Central Support - Visual Verification.
Determine where the noise comes - with a car stethoscope / wooden baggy / microphones.
Check the oil pressure!
What is the oil level and its quality (petrol odor?)?

[peanut450]

Would need to remove cam cover to inspect rockers (I did not see anything amiss when the cover was off for the chain replacement)
Engine is not touching anywhere -engine supports all Ok.
The noise is louder lower down and on the cam chain end.
Other than oil light goes out on starting and does not come on I have no way of checking oil pressure.
Oil level correct @75% full -just replaced with new (old oil had only done@3000 mls and was dark brown with no petrol smell.
Thanks

[Thrumbleux]

Was thinking of removing big ends from underneath but can see that is impossible.

From memory, the caps can be removed on a 600cc engine but only two of them on a 700cc. Your 'less when cold' comment does suggest something that is lubricated by pressurised oil eg crank.
Worth though taking mottofree's advice re engine mounts (touch points) but swarf is suggesting internal problem. Is it possible to get hold of a big end and manipulate it up and down to feel for play/excessive clearance (you may be able to push down on the piston crown from above via spark plug hole) or observe if the crank can be rotated slightly back and forth before the big end starts to move with it when the piston is in mid bore position.
If the engine has been oil starved (failed oil pump drive?) then I'd expect to see wear/scoring at the top end eg cam bearing.

[tolsen]

Big end knock becomes audible at much lower speed than 3000 rpm.

[bob-in-dav]

I was originally going to say broken flywheel spider but the fact that you're gritting bits in the oil leads me to think that you might have a broken crankshaft - more common on cdi engines but definitely a possibility.

[peanut450]

Some more soundshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7fwE_iH1xY