Gordon Murray's city car may yet make the streets

[Kapt. Q]

Re: Gordon Murray's city car may yet make the streets

Anymore labour intensive than the CF i3 from BMW?

A £30,000 car that is not aimed at the mainstream and is electric.

Here's a Wiki quote that points at the current difficulty of using CF for mass production:

BMW is manufacturing carbon strands that form the basis of the i3's carbon-fiber reinforced plastic bodywork at a new US$100 million plant built in Moses Lake, Washington, using raw material shipped from Japan. This location was selected to take advantage of the abundant hydroelectric power available in this U.S. region because carbon-fiber production requires considerable energy and would otherwise emit much carbon dioxide. Electricity in this region also costs about one-seventh of what it costs in Germany, providing a financially beneficial reason for the Moses Lake location. The carbon fiber is then shipped to Landshut, Germany, where the carbon-fiber reinforced plastic parts are fabricated, and the vehicle assembly line is located in Leipzig.

Cheers!

[Thrumbleux]

Re: Gordon Murray's city car may yet make the streets

Well, except for smart beating them to the punch by at least 15 years and there being no plans for Yamaha/GMD to actually make this thing.

True, smart were there first (though some may call them revivalist - (original) Fiat 500, Mini, etc, have all trod the small car path) but they've squandered that lead.
Often, the imposter product is better than the original - let the trailblazers find the problems!

not worth mapping a 1.0lt NA engine really though!

150hp plus easily from Yamaha 1.0 litre engines. Who needs a remap?

how much experience have yamaha got of producing engines suitable for cars?

JJ

Yamaha have loads of experience designing engines for cars (and manufacturing them) , they were in partnership with Ford (US) doing just this for years (and others). V6's have been a particular speciality of their's for a long time.

Quite!. Yamaha did the engine for the 1970s RWD Celica.

The thing I wonder about is how easy repairs will be to such a composite body in the event of an accident and to what degree the concept will be watered down by the time (if it even happens) it is made, it seems to have started down that slope already.

I suspect by the time it's suffered that level of damage it will be a write-off. As would a steel shell.

Also the concept was focused on a low start up cost, but what about long term high volume? That composite looks labour intensive, is it really viable?

Cheers!

I think, the composite element is preformed flat panels for infilling the steel spaceframe. Cut and paste then!

Apparently there are now such panels available made from recycled (off cuts) of carbon fibre. Can't find anyone selling on the 'net though. Does anyone know where to look for these? (I have a use for them).

[problemchild1976]

Re: Gordon Murray's city car may yet make the streets

Cool - didn't know that

150bhp from 1tr - motorbike engine?

My 600cc gsxr had quite a bit of torque but add my mate on the back and it was back to using the range. Not ideal engines for cars though.

JJ

[Thrumbleux]

Re: Gordon Murray's city car may yet make the streets

Except it's 1000cc not 600cc. 67% more torque. Anyway, it's not about torque but where in the rev range it's produced. An R1 is good for 80lbs.ft, a Suprex in a fortwo 60lbs.ft. Which is the torquey engine?

[Evilution]

Re: Gordon Murray's city car may yet make the streets

Motorbike engines use higher RPM to create torque but are generally low on BHP. Not ideal in a car.

[Thrumbleux]

Re: Gordon Murray's city car may yet make the streets

Motorbike engines use higher RPM to create torque but are generally low on BHP. Not ideal in a car.

Other way around Evil. Shorter on torque and make the high hp numbers courtesy of the rpm. The shorter gearing compatible with torque peak higher up the range means the torque is there at the wheels.

The real reason a bike engine isn't ideal for a car is that in its percieved 'sports' installation in a bike the requirement is for ratios close enough to keep the motor on the boil at all times (10-12k rpm). Thus, the span from 1st to 6th gear is approx 2.2, ie, 6th is only 2.2 times taller than 1st. Contrast that with car gearboxes where the span is always greater than 4, usually more.

A more flexible transmission would make a difference but the flat-earthers hold everything back moaning for a 'proper' manual - then complain when a revvy motor demands that they actually change gear! By way of alternatives, check out a sled running a CVT holeshot. It's as though fired from a cannon. The sled that can live with a Busa on a 1/4mile strip - CVT. (Not the power sapping type the car manufacturers use though).

[problemchild1976]

Re: Gordon Murray's city car may yet make the streets

i would hate to have to drive a car like a bike!

can you imagine a little old lady taking her city car up to 12,000 rpm

JJ

[Evilution]

Re: Gordon Murray's city car may yet make the streets

Other way around Evil. Shorter on torque and make the high hp numbers courtesy of the rpm.

Yeah, my mistake, always get it back to front.

[Thrumbleux]

Re: Gordon Murray's city car may yet make the streets

i would hate to have to drive a car like a bike!

can you imagine a little old lady taking her city car up to 12,000 rpm

JJ

JJ is a little old lady.

[problemchild1976]

Re: Gordon Murray's city car may yet make the streets

And I miss my bike

JJ

[Thrumbleux]

Re: Gordon Murray's city car may yet make the streets

Yeah, my mistake, always get it back to front.

You need the elephant and horse analogy as an aide memoire. Elephant (torque) slow - horse (power) fast.

[Thrumbleux]

Re: Gordon Murray's city car may yet make the streets

i would hate to have to drive a car like a bike!
JJ

You won't like the R1 engined single seater I'm building then....

And I miss my bike

JJ

Then go get another one.

[Evilution]

Re: Gordon Murray's city car may yet make the streets

You need the elephant and horse analogy as an aide memoire. Elephant (torque) slow - horse (power) fast.

Err, yeah, I know what torque and bhp are. I just don't have anything to do with bike engines.

[problemchild1976]

Re: Gordon Murray's city car may yet make the streets

yup - the noise would do my head in

not gonna - there are too many crazy people on the road

JJ

[Thrumbleux]

Re: Gordon Murray's city car may yet make the streets

yup - the noise would do my head in

Mine wont be so bad. Open topped (no interior to trap noise), helmet and earplugs, and gearing higher than the donuts-in-a-carpark gearing employed by most BECs.

not gonna - there are too many crazy people on the road

JJ

It's the falling off that stops me having a bike on the road. One front wheel lock up on a greasy country back road....