Changing my smart clutch

[mctaggart]

Hi

I have got a 1999 smart Cdi which has currently got a fault with the clutch, I have got the guide from the FQ website but wanted to know if anyone has changed the clutch before and is it a difficult job?

How many hours should i expect to take to do it, I have been quoted £150 labour from my local independent smart garage to change it, but unfortunatly its a whopping £300+ for the cdi clutch and another £50 for the thrust bearing.

So i am considering doing it my self to keep the costs low.

Let me know

Craig

[Thrumbleux]

Re: Changing my smart clutch

Have heard of others on other forums doing the job. If you have done similar work before, can't see why this should be beyond you.
One point worth mentioning perhaps. Refitting the gearbox is apparently awkward and any misalignment on offering it up can damage the new clutch quite easily. At least 2 reports of it happening.
Advice given was to get studs to screw into bolt holes of bellhousing and use them as guides for the gearbox. Once gearbox is properly mounted the studs are removed and the bolts go in as per usual.

[tolsen]

Re: Changing my smart clutch

There is nothing special to changing the clutch on a Cdi. You can reduce costs further by having the clutch friction plate relined. What makes you conclude your clutch is worn out?

Please note that you need to set the wear compensating mechanism to zero when reassembling clutch. This is done the standard way.


One of the 3 springs for the wear compensating mechanism was broken and found stuck into the friction disk of my clutch. Spare springs are not easy to get hold of except from donor clutches.

[bilgladstone]

Re: Changing my smart clutch

So a competent mechanic who's never done a smart before could do this in what... 4 hours?
Must a thrust bearing always be replaced?
Are there alternative (better than OEM) materials for the friction plate?
And can the flywheel be turned down or drilled or something, to reduce its weight?

[Ferrina]

Re: Changing my smart clutch

All sounds a bit scary to me. Life was good when the A-series engine was common! A clutch was £30 and you could do one in a hour or so. I think 'bangernomics' is the way forward. I've been told that a Forfour clutch fitted is nearly £600??? WTF? That's a sixth of the cars value?

[tolsen]

Re: Changing my smart clutch

So a competent mechanic who's never done a smart before could do this in what... 4 hours?
Must a thrust bearing always be replaced?
Are there alternative (better than OEM) materials for the friction plate?
And can the flywheel be turned down or drilled or something, to reduce its weight?

It's at least a full days job or 7-8 hours. Two days minimum for a novice. Lowering power pack is recommended to get access for removing intercooler, its support cradle etc.
Thrust bearing may be renewed if you prefer peace of mind. I did not bother but I only removed the clutch to inspect its internals. This was about two years ago when my Smart was poorly and the local dealer kept changing every part totalling in excess of 4500 pounds had I not kicked my heals in.
You can reduce weight of flywheel but it needs to be balanced and idle will be rougher.

[tolsen]

Re: Changing my smart clutch

Are there alternative (better than OEM) materials for the friction plate?

Yes there are, even racing spec friction materials. Typical cost for having a Smart ForTwo friction plate relined is 50 pounds plus VAT. Turnaround time is 2 - 3 days. Obviously cheaper and quicker if you can visit the clutch specialist in person.
Please note that special skills are required for disassembling and reassembling the Cdi clutch but no rocket science so within the capabilities of most DIY mechanics.
A sheet of plywood or chipboard, a pair of work gloves, a firm base such as a concrete floor and lots of determination are all you need to disassemble clutch from flywheel. See post on OnSmart forum for further details.

[mctaggart]

Re: Changing my smart clutch

Thanks for the replies, i have come to the conclusion the clutch has had it by a number of sources. Although strangely the clutch prior to failing didnt show any of the obvious typical clutch worn out signs, it just stopped working. Prior I had no clutch slipping problems, just i pulled up to a roundabout, it took about 10 seconds to select a gear then when i stopped at the next roundabout it wouldn’t select any gears at all and gave me three horizontal lines.

This is where my headache has started to repair this, where some 5 months has passed! Took it to the garage and by the fault was sure it was some kind of gear selector malfunction.

garage replaced the gear selector at a cost of over £350 with labor then turned around to me and said hmmmmm "it doesn’t seem to have fixed it" I was like what the f***, and of course they still wanted their money.

They couldn’t find the problem, so sent it to Mercedes who said it was the clutch that had gone, and that it was going to cost £350 for a clutch and thrust bearing and another £400 labor to fit it! As you can imagine at this point I was about to strangle the guy for his incompetence, not to mention I still didn’t believe it was the clutch.

I am a pretty competent mechanic and have worked on many cars and had never heard of a clutch failure like this one, car would intermittently let me select 1st and reverse and I could drive it, which just confused me even more.

Decided it was worth a try to replace the clutch actuator, again this made no difference and the original problem persists.

i.e. Start car, put foot on brake, select gear, car will rock back and for around 5-6 seconds making a funny clunking sound then gives me the horizontal lines, very rarely it has gone into a gear with a loud thud. Also another thing if the rear wheels are off the floor it will select gear nearly every time and you can go through gears 1-5 no problem and reverse, so no gearbox issues.

Finally i have been told that it has to be the clutch, it could be seized or just worn out to the limit. I am told that smarts don’t just slip when they wear out, they can also start to malfunction in the gear selection process.

If this doesn’t resolve this problem I am going to burn the bloody thing!!

HELP!

[RacingSnake]

Re: Changing my smart clutch

I assume you/garage/merc, have done a manual adjustment on the actuator.
The 'rocking' is the selector motor trying to engage the gear with the clutch not released. If the actuator is poorly adjusted it doesn't have enough movement to fully disengage the clutch.

http://www.fq101.co.uk/how-to-guides/fortwo-450/gearbox/21-adjusting-the-clutch-actuator.html

for the sake of 2 minutes, you have nothing to lose by trying it!.
If when adjusting you find that the actuator has no further adjustment it could well indicate that the clutch is well worn, and therefore physically doesn't have enough throw to dis-engage, and a new clutch is on the cards.
I don't know the price of a cdi clutch, but the petrol one costs about £150, and can be fitted in a morning, whole day if you've not done it before.

[mctaggart]

Re: Changing my smart clutch

yes i have tried adjusting the actuator to push the rod as far in as it goes but no luck

The petrol clutches are indeed cheap, but for some reason the Cdi is £300, i assume its because they are so rare and not officially made in the UK. I still spewing at having to fork out £350 for one with the bearing, i have searched hi and low for an after market one and no one does one, believe me i have spent about a month looking!!

You have given me an idea with the clutch actuator though, im gonna remove it and physically force it in closer to see if it does disengage the clutch (beyond the bolt hole adjustment)

Considering i only paid £1100 for this car last year with about 60k on it, i havent had a single problem with it, then this happens and the garage want a bloody mortgage to repair it. I have probably spent nearly what i paid for it now in repair bills

Smart my ass!

[madDan]

Re: Changing my smart clutch

When fitting the clutch actuator the force applied when cold should be 50 Nm against the release arm, assuming the release arm is in it's relaxed state, ie the clutch is engaged.

Maybe your thrust bearing is siezed with the clutch stuck open?

What happens when you power the car on and off and try and select gears (without starting engine) Does the actuator motor in and out?

[tolsen]

Re: Changing my smart clutch

Cdi clutches do not wear out - certainly I've never seen any reports of that on any of the forums.
It is worth while checking the cable to clutch actuator for faults. When mine played up it was two broken cables in the harness leading to the actuator, at the point where the outer sleeve touches the cables just before the plug. This case is well documented on OnSmart forum.
I suggest you test your clutch before proceding further - just to confirm if the clutch is the culprit:

• Rear end on axle stands.
• Engage a gear, can be done by removing gear change motor and turning gear wheel by hand.
• Remove clutch actuator.
• Operate clutch using a rod or large screw driver.
• Get a mate to turn a road wheel whilst you disengage clutch. Other side road wheel obviously needs to be locked or touching ground. Repeat whilst in neutral.

PS. Could also be chafing damage to cable for gear change motor.

[Messerschmitt Owner]

Re: Changing my smart clutch

Sachs make the clutch - call them direct

http://www.sachs-boge.co.uk/

[tolsen]

Re: Changing my smart clutch

Sachs make the clutch - call them direct

http://www.sachs-boge.co.uk/

They only sell by pallet loads and not to private individuals. No clutch for the Cdi is listed. Artikel Ländereinschränkungen gilt nicht für: Großbritannien und Irland.

You need to go to the German site.
Sachs part number is 3089 000 010.

[madDan]

Re: Changing my smart clutch

amazing how the Sachs part number for the Brabus Roady and Roady clutch are exactly the same.................

back to the CDi it won't be officially reckonised as a UK part as the 450 were never sold here officially in the CDi form as they are LHD