New Smart Fortwo 453 launches today at 18:00pm GMT.

[Thrumbleux]

I really like the design of that renault, what is its name if it even has a name? .

Lotus.

[Thrumbleux]

Incorrect. The 450 lost money, the 451 was the only car they were selling when they started making a profit. The Forfour lost money faster than the fortwo, that's why it only lived for just over 2 years.

But it was the Roadster's warranty claims for leaks that nearly sunk smart.

[Thrumbleux]

I'm very disappointed that Smart, the defacto economical car company haven't offered a diesel engine for the ForTwo, and instead just two petrol engines which might get about 70mpg. Through careful driving I'm currently averaging 91mpg on my 2012 cdi and I had hoped the new cars, fitted with the latest engine technology would have been even more economical

People fail to understand just how expensive a Diesel engine is to build - Brunellian scale internals and ultra-precision and mega pressure fueling equipment see to that. The expense required to meet Euro 6 regs has finished them. But only because the new breed of direct injection petrols are becoming much more fuel efficient, and require less resources to build - also part of the 'green' equation.

Manual gearbox? Potentially better for economy, but the semi-auto gearbox was one of the funnest things about the smart, particularly in traffic jams.

Plus one for that!
Except the manual has no inherent efficiency advantage over an AMT.

I guess the new tip-tronic gearbox will appeal to those who found the old smart engine gearbox too clunky and slow, even if it comes with a heavy price tag.

I suspect those who hated the old transmission will go straight to the manual.
The AMT could have (and should have) been developed into a smooth working box offering the best fuel efficiency of any transmission. It's all in the software - which MB are masters of. It's why they lead the F1 championship. More boldly they could have mildly hybridized using Zytek's already available system which delivers seamless acceleration but Zytek aren't MB smart who just cannot shake off their NIHness.

I'll wait to see one in the flesh before completely writing it off,– although they do seem to have missed the mark on many points ... I'm impressed that they've reduced the length, tightened the turning circle and improved the ride though

David

Apparently the feed back to smart was 'don't increase the length'. Handy though the brevity in length is for parking, it doesn't much help when squeezing through narrow gaps - at which my 450 excels. Sorry 453 owners, but expect to be stuck there while the 450 and 451 drivers disappear into the distance.

I suspect in creating the 453 smart looked long and hard at Toyota's IQ. Unfortunately, they adopted all that is bad about it.

[SmarterAlex]

This is a car they want to sell in USA, and I know, drivers want a car to face up to all the other big aggressive cars they have. Are 4 wheels the same size now? Usually big on the back and small on the front, helps give it that rear engine drive character. The steel frame is fixed in production now, but the rest is just styling, Easier to redefine with a product update in a few years time.

[SmarterAlex]

Perhaps 4 wheel drive coming...... Hybrid electric front wheel drive.

[cougar7609]

I wrote a long email in reply to another email that Daimler sent me explaining all of the points that have been brought up here, funnily enough they havent replied this time! I think they are having quite a few people say the same thing judging by some other things Ive read about it.

[Thrumbleux]

This is a car they want to sell in USA, and I know, drivers want a car to face up to all the other big aggressive cars they have. .

There were two obvious routes they could have taken. One, the sharp sleek approach as per the Lotus concept, or two, a mini SUV. The sharp sleek would have been my choice but a mini SUV (given the ForTwo already has the feature that SUVs are mainly bought for, namely, the high seating position) could have worked and they had the Crosstown as a start point. I wonder if they couldn't have offered the choice of the two using the base Tridion but different panelling but perhaps the Twingo collaboration has proven overly restrictive. Still no reason for it to look like Enid Blyton penned it for Noddy though. The yanks (where the F150 pickup is the best selling car by a huge margin) will be pissing themselves laughing at this.

[Evilution]

I had read an article where the Smart (for which thy pictured a 451 cabrio) and the Bugatti Veyron was in the same table for losing money for their respective manufacturers (and presented a picture of the two facing each other to demonstrate the stark difference). Evidently, I was wrong. Apologies.

Easy mistake to make, it's just bad reporting on their behalf. It was only up to 2006.

But it was the Roadster's warranty claims for leaks that nearly sunk smart.

I put that rumour to some guys I know who work for smart and they said it's not true. The average warranty claim per Roadster was only about £200, mainly for new seals. It was only the RHD version of the Roadster that really suffered from water in the SAM. It's not unknown but a lot more rare on LHD cars. The Roadster was cancelled because smart couldn't afford to manufacture the parts for it and the parts for the 451. It was a different story when they part shared with the fortwo. So when the 451 came along, the Roadster went away.

The 450 was the killer. If you think they had to build a brand new factory, create a brand new, never done before type of car and break into a new market with an unknown brand.
The only way they could do it was to seriously undercut the price of the car and slowly bring the price up as they became well known. That's why the 1st smarts cost £6000 and now they start at £9000.

What I'd hoped it might look like...

.

Considering the retail value of this car is expected to be £29,000 you sort of expect it to look nice. People who buy a lotus are a completely different demographic to those who buy a smart.
Unfortunately smart would never chance making something looking evil like that. They have to make happy looking plastic cars for women.

[jwight]

Looking forward to hearing feedback once the cars are available in the UK (November supposedly...) We'll be visiting mid-October so will just miss them. Lots of grumbling on SCoA and Club Smart Car sites - change is always hard for some people. Like Corvettes, the best smart is always the current one and the 453 looks like a winner to me. Haven't seen anything on a 453 BRABUS yet but can only hope there will be one. Whether we get it in North America is another question. If we do, I'll be on the list; after having owned three 451s I'm ready for the 453!

[Thrumbleux]

Easy mistake to make, it's just bad reporting on their behalf. It was only up to 2006.



I put that rumour to some guys I know who work for smart and they said it's not true. The average warranty claim per Roadster was only about £200, mainly for new seals. It was only the RHD version of the Roadster that really suffered from water in the SAM. It's not unknown but a lot more rare on LHD cars. The Roadster was cancelled because smart couldn't afford to manufacture the parts for it and the parts for the 451. It was a different story when they part shared with the fortwo. So when the 451 came along, the Roadster went away.

Fair points but how the hell did they manage to release such a flawed car? Did they not leak test it during development? And by what I can make out just about every UK car incurred the £200 warranty cost.
On the plus side though, it was good kudos for the brand to launch with a sportscar. Certainly got people's attention.

The 450 was the killer. If you think they had to build a brand new factory, create a brand new, never done before type of car and break into a new market with an unknown brand.
The only way they could do it was to seriously undercut the price of the car and slowly bring the price up as they became well known. That's why the 1st smarts cost £6000 and now they start at £9000.

I guess the start up costs were high but a new production line is required for most new models. New buildings too for a lot of the globally outsourced production plants used by others in China, Romania, India, Brazil etc, etc, but at lower cost admittedly than in France.
I bought my 05 Pure when it was 6 months old with 4000 miles under its wheels (dealer courtesy car) for £6000 exactly! It's proven to be a good buy.

Considering the retail value of this car is expected to be £29,000 you sort of expect it to look nice. People who buy a lotus are a completely different demographic to those who buy a smart.
Unfortunately smart would never chance making something looking evil like that. They have to make happy looking plastic cars for women.

More likely it was going to be a Proton.
Prettiness isn't a cost issue and the new ForTwo is just plain ugly. In an image obsessed world it is the Elephant Man of the automotive world. That's a hell of a handicap when the brand still - after all these years - hasn't gained universal acceptance. I honestly think MB are making an arse of managing the smart brand. They need to look to Munich for lessons.Just look at how Mini sold on looks alone. Merely because it didn't look like all the other econobox hatches of the time - even though in many instances they were better engineered beneath the skin and more spacious to boot - especially the boot. But it did look like something people wanted to be seen in. If you see me in 453 please be respectful and remove your hat....

[SmarterAlex]

The look of the 453 isn't something new. Way back in the heyday of Smart, there was a concept in this shape as a 4x4

[mocelet]

optional six speed DSG gearbox

This bodes well for a new Roadster...

[ajprice]

Has the ForTwo got fat? Auto Express have the weight as 1124kg in their crash test article, the 451 is around 800kg! http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/smart/f...rcedes-s-class

[cougar7609]

Has the ForTwo got fat? Auto Express have the weight as 1124kg in their crash test article, the 451 is around 800kg! http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/smart/f...rcedes-s-class

Yeah its been eating too much bullcrap from the designers... really they really should be put up against a wall! Maybe its the double clutch system that over did it.... in a town car..... hmmmmz the place where you really want to be pressing a clutch all day long.... Or maybe its because they widened it and made it too big to get into small parking places...... hmmmz perfect for the town/city environment.... maybe its the gold they made the seats from... thats what will add some weight... and of course it justifies the price.... hmmmz the perfect pitch for a car smaller than its price rivals and the now over crowded sub mini class at half the price. Maybe its the crosswind assist unit.... the one that causes you have a head on crash if you attempt to overtake..... But no! It has to be that pregnant bonnet its carrying with the boobs oddly spaced apart, they didnt say it had a second storage space at the front... oh no I forgot... they didnt say that... thats because its all wasted space.... woa betide anyone who wants to get its kit off though because that'll be harder than undoing a bra with your big toe.

Can you tell Im hugely disappointed in this fugly heap of junk they have come up with... no surely not! So many designs to choose from and they picked a blind guy to pick it by sticking his hand in a bag and picking the worst of all the designs they had to come up with, but it was his birthday!!!! He was so desperate to have a present this year so they had to let him choose. aww arent they sweet! Im all for equal opportunities but they should have had him do the sound testing surely?!! May be it will all be a big joke and the real car will be unveiled at launch Yeah thats it.... it has to be that! You have to believe that! They honestly cant go into production with what they unveiled at the unveiling. That car would be automotive suicide! It would be known as the awww isnt it sweet but Id rather have something I wouldnt want to be seen dead in car.

[Thrumbleux]

Has the ForTwo got fat? Auto Express have the weight as 1124kg in their crash test article, the 451 is around 800kg! http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/smart/f...rcedes-s-class

I'm guessing - that that is the test weight including ballast to represent passengers and luggage.
It's surely impossible that its kerb weight is 1124kg!