Tik Pipe kit Roadster 82cv

[tolsen]

Re: Tik Pipe kit Roadster 82cv

Now that I'm aware of the issue with the silicone TIKs - I wasn't prior but had no need to be as I've never contemplated fitting one - I concur that to get the best results a (tricky) streamlining job is required. Always, when I'm working with components that handle fast moving gas flows, I seek to streamline and avoid sudden contractions, expansions, and any other source of turbulence.

The worst TIK must be those silicone TIKs pushed by Mr Big and Smart-Stuff. At the connection to turbo compressor housing, their TIK is up to 65% larger in flow area than flow area of compressor housing inlet so there is nothing like a smooth, un-abrupt and streamlined transition.

That's the result of cheap nasty oil. A proper paraffinic based oil wouldn't do that.

There is nothing wrong with my Lidl oil thank you. My Smart has almost clocked 200K on top quality Lidl oils it so the oil must be OK.

[Thrumbleux]

Re: Tik Pipe kit Roadster 82cv

The worst TIK must be those silicone TIKs pushed by Mr Big and Smart-Stuff. At the connection to turbo compressor housing, their TIK is up to 65% larger in flow area than flow area of compressor housing inlet so there is nothing like a smooth, un-abrupt and streamlined transition.

Unless they have an abutment.

There is nothing wrong with my Lidl oil thank you. My Smart has almost clocked 200K on top quality Lidl oils it so the oil must be OK.

There's more to oil than preventing wear. Preserving - not destroying - seals is a useful ability.

Which company was it that Caterpillar approached re long drain oils? Are their initials LE?

[tolsen]

Re: Tik Pipe kit Roadster 82cv

Unless they have an abutment.




There's more to oil than preventing wear. Preserving - not destroying - seals is a useful ability.

Which company was it that Caterpillar approached re long drain oils? Are their initials LE?

Your point regarding oil accepted but kindly note I have taken certain precautions like limiting unnecessary EGR soot collecting in my oil, do not overload engine and usually change oil at shorter interval than recommended.

As regards Caterpillar's longer oil drains I always thought that was all from in-house research and experience.

Back on the induction track:
Remember this post: http://www.smartmaniacs.co.uk/showth...l=1#post762726

Max vacuum measured in front of turbo compressor when going flat out with pedal to metal was 210 mm or just below 8 1/2 inch water gauge. I know lots of you love your K&N air filters. It so happens that K&N has published a recommended restriction or vacuum in the air box when K&N recommends filter to be cleaned or renewed. The K&N recommended vacuum is 10 inch water gauge (250 mm or 2.5 kPa).
Based on that I think I ought to be quite pleased with the performance of my old OEM paper air filter and original restricted TIK as some of you would call it. Either my paper air filter or my TIK must be exceptionally good or perhaps both?

[Thrumbleux]

Re: Tik Pipe kit Roadster 82cv

Your point regarding oil accepted but kindly note I have taken certain precautions like limiting unnecessary EGR soot collecting in my oil, do not overload engine and usually change oil at shorter interval than recommended.

Presumably a semi-synth, the napthenics or aromatics (I can never remember which) cause seal deterioration.

As regards Caterpillar's longer oil drains I always thought that was all from in-house research and experience.

Caterpillar don't do oils. They'll have involved an oil company and probably not a major.

Back on the induction track:
Remember this post: http://www.smartmaniacs.co.uk/showth...l=1#post762726

Max vacuum measured in front of turbo compressor when going flat out with pedal to metal was 210 mm or just below 8 1/2 inch water gauge. I know lots of you love your K&N air filters. It so happens that K&N has published a recommended restriction or vacuum in the air box when K&N recommends filter to be cleaned or renewed. The K&N recommended vacuum is 10 inch water gauge (250 mm or 2.5 kPa).
Based on that I think I ought to be quite pleased with the performance of my old OEM paper air filter and original restricted TIK as some of you would call it. Either my paper air filter or my TIK must be exceptionally good or perhaps both?

You've unwittingly made the case for K&N there TK!
When caked to the point of requiring cleaning a mere 1&1/2'' discrepancy compared to a filter the airflow of which is down due to the lesser breathing and rpm capability of the Diesel engine it's serving. (I'll ignore the effect of the smaller TIK for now).
Put another way, with the additional 33% airflow that a petrol demands at 6000rpm, K&N say even when caked their filter is flowing within 1&1/2'' of a paper filter running at 75% of the airflow.

Nonetheless, post rebuild, I think I'm going to return to paper filters for reasons of filtration. The Brabus TIK stays though.

[tolsen]

Re: Tik Pipe kit Roadster 82cv

... Put another way, with the additional 33% airflow that a petrol demands at 6000rpm,...

Smart 450 service book says air filter is to be renewed every 25000 km for the Cdi and 30000 km for the petrol. Does that not indicate that air flowing through the diesel air filter is more than for the petrol?

[Thrumbleux]

Re: Tik Pipe kit Roadster 82cv

Smart 450 service book says air filter is to be renewed every 25000 km for the Cdi and 30000 km for the petrol. Does that not indicate that air flowing through the diesel air filter is more than for the petrol?

Nope. That's all to do with the Diesel operating unthrottled during all running whereas the petrol only calls upon additional breathing capacity at peak power - which is, relatively speaking, seldom.

[tolsen]

Re: Tik Pipe kit Roadster 82cv

...You've unwittingly made the case for K&N there TK!

A case for the opposite!
The air filter fitted when I did those measurements was at least seven years old. Air flow resistance was well within K&N's margin even though I measured in front of turbo compressor at end of TIK pipe were vacuum is at its highest. Therefore a case for OEM paper filters and not for K&N.

I honestly believe in the UK one can safely run a car on its factory original paper air filter and stay well within K&N's margin throughout the life of the car without ever cleaning or changing air filter.

[Thrumbleux]

Re: Tik Pipe kit Roadster 82cv

A case for the opposite!
The air filter fitted when I did those measurements was at least seven years old.

and had been cleaned to an inch of its life how often?

Air flow resistance was well within K&N's margin even though I measured in front of turbo compressor at end of TIK pipe were vacuum is at its highest. Therefore a case for OEM paper filters and not for K&N.

Was that a take-off upstream from the main constriction in the TIK?

I honestly believe in the UK one can safely run a car on its factory original paper air filter and stay well within K&N's margin throughout the life of the car without ever cleaning or changing air filter.

Dependent on environment. Where I currently live (though not for much longer) it is very dusty. A car spending its life on motorways may be OK, but my filter gets filthy.

I am going to revert back to paper filters after my rebuild. I'll be interested to see if there's any drop in performance. I'm prepared to trade the last drop in performance (top end rpm I rarely use but for overtaking) for improved filtration during all running.
I don't recall any of the oil analysis returns I had running the Pipercross highlighting dirt in the oil though.

[tolsen]

Re: Tik Pipe kit Roadster 82cv

Previously posted 7 April 2012:

There is no improvement fitting silicon and larger TIK pipes apart from placebo. Flow of air gets more restricted so worse overall fitting TIK which is not matched to turbo inlet. Smoother overpriced silicon pipe has no improvement on air flow.


TIK outlet bore and turbo inlet bore diameters:
The original TIK tapers down to the minimum bore at connection to turbo compressor housing. Fitting a larger TIK creates a discontinuity at connection to turbo that is detrimental to the smooth air flow.


Above image shows flow at a contraction of pipe diameter such as at connection of large outlet TIK pipe to a smaller turbo inlet.

Flow through a sudden contraction of the pipe diameter causes flow separation bubbles near cross section 3. Effective flow diameter is substantially reduced as result.

[tolsen]

Re: Tik Pipe kit Roadster 82cv

and had been cleaned to an inch of its life how often?

I weigh my air filters and can assure you they do not collect much dirt. Only a couple of grams at the most per annum.

Was that a take-off upstream from the main constriction in the TIK?

I measured vacuum just before connection to turbo compressor housing where TIK pipe diameter is smallest.

Dependent on environment. Where I currently live (though not for much longer) it is very dusty. A car spending its life on motorways may be OK, but my filter gets filthy.

I am going to revert back to paper filters after my rebuild. I'll be interested to see if there's any drop in performance. I'm prepared to trade the last drop in performance (top end rpm I rarely use but for overtaking) for improved filtration during all running.
I don't recall any of the oil analysis returns I had running the Pipercross highlighting dirt in the oil though.

It is too wet here for much dust to form. Paper filters can take enormous dust loadings before air flow becomes restricted. Remember K&N's recommendation for filter maintenance is 10 inch H2O or 2.5 kPa vacuum. A paper filter will have to be caked in dust to produce such a high vacuum and I doubt you will ever see that in the UK.
Invest in a K&N Filter Minder and you will see that you will never get into the red with an OEM paper filter. Just run on the original air filter until you scrap your Smart.

[Jimmyrinse]

Re: Tik Pipe kit Roadster 82cv

I weigh my air filters and can assure you they do not collect much dirt. Only a couple of grams at the most per annum.

Do you take it to weight watchers?
How many pro points is it allowed

[tolsen]

Re: Tik Pipe kit Roadster 82cv

A standard air filter weighs 70 to 80 grams. Air filter needs be left indoors to dry out on a radiator before weighing. Precision scales required so I use a Lidl electronic diet scale.

[Thrumbleux]

Re: Tik Pipe kit Roadster 82cv

Fitting a larger TIK creates a discontinuity at connection to turbo that is detrimental to the smooth air flow.


Above image shows flow at a contraction of pipe diameter such as at connection of large outlet TIK pipe to a smaller turbo inlet.

Flow through a sudden contraction of the pipe diameter causes flow separation bubbles near cross section 3. Effective flow diameter is substantially reduced as result.

A properly profiled insert to create a smooth transition would cure that though.
(A marketing opportunity for anyone handy with a lathe).

[RacingSnake]

Re: Tik Pipe kit Roadster 82cv

A properly profiled insert to create a smooth transition would cure that though.
(A marketing opportunity for anyone handy with a lathe).

We machined out the turbo compressor inlet to taper it in towards the blades to reduce any step change in intake diameter.
Actual noticeable effect??? negligible.
Same as the TIK material, in reality the noticeable effect is going to be barely noticeable whether it is a silicone TIK, a home-made one or a 74kw one.

[bazza.]

Re: Tik Pipe kit Roadster 82cv