4two+2

[problemchild1976]

Re: 4two+2

Reasons the forfour isn't really a smart (according to me):

1 - Engine in the wrong end
2 - The trid is a big fat fake
3 - The wheels are 4 stud
4 - It comes in a manual
5 - It doesn't really look much like a smart (bar a few odd touches)
6 - It's got more mitsi badges on its components than a colt*


The forfour boot, with the seats pushed back, is actually smaller than the fortwo boot. I watched GavC trying to ram a pram into his boot that I could have easily slotted into Mr P so, IMO, is utterly useless as a family car. I'd rather stick with the 2 seats myself!

Of course, I have no problem with the owners, I'm just not keen on the car as a 'smart'. They aren't bad to drive, as with the roadie though, horrid PAS.

(*complete fabrication)

i've never read so much total arse in all my life!! well - apart from the sunday sport

1-4 are just arguments why its not a fortwo....idiot!! haha!!

the gearbox on the fortwo is getrag which is ford

development of chassis, panels etc was all done by the supply chain

swatch designed the car (they make watches) with VW backing then changed to daimler backing - so is the fortwo not a daimler??

anyway, if a smart is a smart because it uses multiple companies to produce it then hey - maybe the forfour fails as it is just a 2 company collaboration

forfour boot yadayadayada!! with the seats pushed right back of course the boot is smaller - but you get 4 people in it i thought!! and with the boot bigger........what a surprise.....you can STILL get 4 people in it!! what is your point?? you are again making up random arguments......with no reasoning

you forgot to mention that the fortwo also has a split folding boot - that makes the car awesome beyond all other cars

the discussion is about forfours and you (and others) are alienating part of the community with a total lack of respect!! :wag:

...and PJ - you can't threaten people and tell them they can't voice an opinion because they will get ganged up on!!

you guys are sooooo funny!! :thanx: I feel so welcome!!

i think the forfour looks VERY similar to the fortwo....


JJ

[10:45PM]

Re: 4two+2

the gearbox on the fortwo is getrag which is ford

FAIL :p

The Hagenmeyer family own the vast bulk of Getrag, ie they own themselves

Ford and Getrag does however have a 50/50 joint venture together (getrag ford transmissions), not the same thing at all :wag:


I've never read so much total arse in all my life either!!:p

[problemchild1976]

Re: 4two+2

so ford don't have anything to do with the getrag gearbox??

mitsubishi have nothing to do with lots of the the forfour but that seems not to matter at all.......!!

who actually makes the fortwo engine??

JJ

[problemchild1976]

Re: 4two+2

There will always be people that don't like forfours, the same as there will always be people that dont like fortwos/451's/roadsters/roadster coupes/nissan micras/whatever...........the whole point of buying ANY car should be it's something that YOU, PERSONALLY ENJOY!!!!

don't care if people don't like the car......that doesn't seem to be the point

its people telling us owners that the car is not a smart car for the most stupid of reasons (the best being that it doesn't have 3 bolt alloys.....legendary!! my old fortwo had 5 bolt alloys!!! i hated the day when it stopped being a smart)

not a very friendly community ethos really

JJ

[10:45PM]

Re: 4two+2

the getrag gearbox

being the original smart car/fortwo/citycoupe (call it what you will ) gearbox?

Nope ford have nothing to do with it, getrag were making the smart gearbox long before ford and getrag got together in that 50/50 joint venture. getrag still make getrag gearboxes outside this 50/50 venture you know

which fortwo engine , the 999 or the 698/599 ? :p

you know who makes both!! :wag:

its people telling us owners that the car is not a smart car for the most stupid of reasons (the best being that it doesn't have 3 bolt alloys.....legendary!!

Yeah but that's just MsPoo being MsPoo innit

[problemchild1976]

Re: 4two+2

ok - well post 2001 smarts all have ford products...haha!!

humour me

JJ

[LadyV]

Re: 4two+2

Well I thought I would grace this forum with my first (and likely to be last) ever post.

I have never read so much utter **** as just now...and I agree with everything that JJ has mentioned.... I think the Daily Sport has more intellectual arguments....and that's just about tits!

I thought I heard it all but then someone says a Smart (notice the word Smart people) ForFour is not a Smart as it doesn't have the engine in the back?! Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr???? Just when I thought that that was the most hilarious thing I ever read in my whole life, someone again says something that nearly made me fall of my chair....the Smart ForFour is not a Smart because it doesn't have 3 bolt alloys?! I am actually laughing the hardest I have laughed in ages because that so funny!!

Then someone has the audacity to come out with: "The worst possible thing you can do on this thread is slag off Fortwos...for a start a lot more people own fortwos than they do forfours...you dont want that kind if fight on here!!!"

This just goes to show what a bunch of unfriendly, rude and disrespectful people are on here and quite frankly (with an attitude like this and by this I mean slagging off people's cars over the internet without actual good reasoning and then calling ForFour owners all kinds of names for retaliating) I don't want to be looked down on just because I own a ForFour.

Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion but please...back it up with some facts that are actually plausible and not just silly reasons!

I cannot believe this immature argument has ever risen because there is me thinking that this was in fact a Smart community, meaning that all Smart Car (yes that does include the ForFour) owners were welcome?

So far all I have seen are people slagging off my friends on here and it's enough to make me never want to come back here unless you can all pull your fingers out of your arses for one minute and just ENJOY ALL SMART CARS!!

As the Smart slogan says: "Open your Mind".

So, I bid you all farewell and as the dragons say....I don't like the idea, I don't think it will work and for that reason....I am out!

[DaisyDuke]

Re: 4two+2

Jeez people calm down. How about debating in an adult way without resorting to name calling?

Lady V if you just came here to cause trouble and won't be posting again then I'll delete your account now, ok?

Piling in from other forums is not appreciated.

Play nicely

[Thrumbleux]

Re: 4two+2

Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion but please...back it up with some facts that are actually plausible and not just silly reasons!

Most of it was reasoned debate.

What is your contribution other than a diatribe of the type you say you detest?

'Projecting like a psycho' as Frankie Boyle might say - eminently more quotable then any bollox from the Den.

Might the '3 bolts' not be symbolic of the simplicity and light weight inherent in fortwos and Roadsters?

Go read what Colin Chapman said on the subject... And if you think you are a better engineer than he was.....

[Messerschmitt Owner]

Re: 4two+2

it strikes me that much of the debate here is reasoned - so, we've gone off topic from the fortwo +2 thing onto why forfours did not work. Let us look at the facts!

1. The NedCar factory worked at way below capacity - that's because people weren't buying the cars they made.

2. the smart forfour (and sometimes five) was too dear, was probably too quirky (even though it isn't) for the demographic it was intended to sell to - as made patently clear by point 1.

3. smart made a loss on every forfour made - due to points one and two

4. The smart roadster also made a loss, but due to bad design. Its packaging was excellent, the concept was fantastic, but the execution let it down. However, the smart roadster provided a driving experience that the forfour cannot and never did achieve. It also fitted in a niche all of its own - still too dear, but, hey, smart finally realised and cut the prices.

5. the smart forfour was a mainstream car designed to be sold to (primarily) non-mainstream people - it failed in that respect due to a number of factors, one of which was that is was too dear, too late, and didn't offer enough for the customer to spend more money on it than its competition. The supermini bracket is one where people buy their own cars so they much more carefully decide how to spend their money. They chose elsewhere - as is obvious.

6. I still like forfours but there are some fundamental issues with forfours that mean I will probably never own one. One of those is the residual price, which is still quite high - that means that those cars that are available are still sought after - that's a good thing!

7. Is this reasoned enough?

8. Like forfour owners, I am entitled to my opinion ... it may be wrong, it may be right, at least my opinions are based on fact not blind devotion to what is essentially just a car! Unreasoned rants, whether by fortwo, roadster or forfour owners, are just that. Come on and defend your choice of car if you want to, convince the unbelievers why the forfour is a decent car - alternatively, go off in a big cream puff. You decide!



Campbell

[problemchild1976]

Re: 4two+2

rightio.....

Mesh - I agree 100% with everything you say!!

1) the forfour was not a success - agree (in the UK)
2) the forfour was too expensive - agree (way too expensive - the BRAB was £17k without options...but i paid just over £9k when it was 18mths old)
3) not sure on this one as the forfour is available in quite a few countries)
4) a niche is ok but there must be demand - there wasn't for the roadster
5) the smart brand was not main stream enough to warrant the high price
6) residual price is LOW...... 06 cars are now going for around £3k and the spec and quality is very good.
7) VERY reasoned
8) your opinion is ok and welcome as it is not a personal attack

the point is, the car IS a smart (it says so on my V5) so random statements to alienate a proportion of smart owners should not be tolerated on a smart site!!

i am looking forward to the new forfour as i think there is a LOT of potential in it and i think a number of the old fortwo owners will start to grow out of their car (families etc as i did) and when you start looking for cars with 4/5 seats after owning a fortwo for so long, you realise how boring things like the ford focus actually are

the 452, 450, 451, 454 are all smarts.....

...and the 454 is a very exciting drive! you get lots and lots of feedback through the wheel and even the 1.1 is really nippy!!

fortwo's are not even a car anyway as they are a motorbike with 4 wheels! haha!!

JJ

[Thrumbleux]

Re: 4two+2

i am looking forward to the new forfour as i think there is a LOT of potential in it and i think a number of the old fortwo owners will start to grow out of their car (families etc as i did) and when you start looking for cars with 4/5 seats after owning a fortwo for so long, you realise how boring things like the ford focus actually are

Ditto. And if smart get it right and provide for those just out growing their fortwos, but don't want or need the full 4 door 5 seat option, by offering a 2 + 2, then it might stop the exodus to mini land!
Rear seats for occasional adult trips and suitable for kids would provide luggage flexibility when not used as seating.

[problemchild1976]

Re: 4two+2

the worst possible thing you can do on this thread is slag off Fortwos...for a start a lot more people own fortwos than they do forfours...you dont want that kind if fight on here!!!

is this not threatening behaviour??

FACT...Smarts are made at Hambach....non smarts are not made at Hambach....where was the Forfour made??????

FACT?? what?????? where does it say this???? please show me the document at which your gormless smiley is pointing please!! Delusional if you ask me!!

is a micra not a nissan because its built in sunderland and not in Japan??? absolute tosh! some people have zero clue!!

JJ

[10:45PM]

Re: 4two+2

cor blimey is this thing still on

[superstevie]

Re: 4two+2

17k for the brabus was a lot, but a similar specced cooper S was a hell of a lot more! Residuals counted against it though

Campbell, I do agree with you in what you are saying, as I said before. Thing is, the fortwo has hardly been the rip roaring success that it was supposed to be. Merc had expected 200000 sales with in the first year of production, yet it got only 10% of that sales target. It didnt make any money on the 450 either, and was probably only kept on for so long as they had invested so much into a new factory. Plus it helps now to keep the company's average emissions down.

I think one thing seem to be annoying forfour owners. And the is their constant battle to prove their cars. Ive said before that I think it was a wasted opportunity but its still a smart, in my eyes at least.